Easter Weekend

At least it's the same for everyone this season! Last season we had Catalans twice and other seasons we've had Leeds and Saints twice so it did swing. thankfully we never had to go to france twice like some teams did!!

I can understand the game origins and it is a shame that we can't have clubs with sound history. But as it has been pointed out the league need substantial financial support and this will never be adequat if we don't become national or even international! We complain about the amount of coverage we get and yet complain when we try to expand! I don't like the idea of traveling a long way but will one day goto Quins and Catalans!

Some good posts here ( most of which i don't agree with ) To start with i agree it's nice to be able to tootle down the road to watch Cas or Wakey or whoever, but the truth is that very few( Huddersfield fans at least) do that, Yes we are getting our away support up cause we have had a good start to the season, But It's ok saying we will only have home crowds when we play Cat London or Celtic, But home crowds are what a club should base It's figures on ,Away support is a bonus, whoever your club is.
Anyway the name of the game is TV that's what keeps rugby league alive, we may not like it too much but It's a fact, and that's why there will be teams in Scotland And Ireland, basically because that's what Sky want.
We have had 100 years of League in what is now the M62 corridor and where has it got some of the teams, It's got the Giants where they are now simply because they had a huge slice of luck, Teams like Batley Dewsbury, of whoever who haven't had that same sort of luck Have had a hundred years to get it right, and just like Huddersfield would have done they are going down the pan, Is the the Fault of the RFL, is it the fault of Catalan or Celtic, I think not.
To ridicule Celtic for having a large number of Imports in their team is a bit poor in my opinion, Ok they are not going to produce their own players in numbers for a few years, But hey up till 12 months ago Fartown were producing even less , and the game was born here 100 years ago, Bradford a couple of seasons ago looked more like a New Zealand team than a west Yorkshire one, And in almost 60 years of watching Huddersfield i can't remember them ever having a decent side that wasn't peppered with foreigners.
Anyway for better or worse the RFL have gone for expansion, To me It's for the better, far better that, than in a few years we should be saying well we used to have a great game , It's all gone now of course. but at least we didn't let them bloody Froggies or Welsh buggers in, Without expansion Sky wont want to know and without TV no Rugby league

I take half an hour off because i am trying to get pissed because i am stressed and depressed and what happens we have invasion of the flat cappers . Where do i start.

The key principle has to be that RL in the modern era has to be a well paid professional sport to be able to compete with all of the other attractions out there. At the Minute a huge amount of a clubs income comes from sky. I believe that afull 50% of the salary cap comes from SKY. the rest is indavidual club sponsorship, attendances, francising of catering etc.

the reality is that SKY is more important to RL than anything else. Without sky ( and they rely on advertising and sales of boxes etc) then they woul dreduce or pull there money out. Therefore we have to be able to keep sky happy. For Sky they eant to be able to sell sky boxes where they have not done well before ie Wales. they want to widen their stable of potential sports etc. It is SKY that needs RL to appeal to more than 150,000 peopl who liv eon the M63 corridor. that is part of the reason we need expansion

Secondly we have to have an international game which attracts publ;icity, adverising, media attaention etc. RU a crap game survives because people like to watch their INTERNATIONAL teams winning. How amny people with no interest in RU got excited when England won the 1999 WC. Johnny 'Balsa wood bones' Wilkninson is a household name for scoring a DROP GOAL. Whilst great RL players are unknown outside of Yorks and lancs. We have to build the international game to get international exposure. I bet you are all sat at home regualrly complaining about the lack of media coverage of Rl all the time


Gembob

i sympathise with you about widnes but the reality is they are a club at the end of the M62 they might be worth a franchise but it would have to be at the expense of another club over that way. Whiuch of saints, wire or wigan should they replace. they DO NOT bring anything to RL in terms of publicity, money, media attention or anything else
You mention it is unfair for Welsh kids to have nowhere to go but to Celtic. that is not the case Warrington identified TWO excellent welsh players ( from Celtic) and gave them contracts at Wire. their families moved up with them because Celtic were NL" and offered them nothing. those kids are youth interntaionals and if the experts are to be believed will be playing for GB in 3 to 4 years.


As for your comments about the games morality and chasing the money i suggest a vist to the RL heritage centre to find out whty the NU and RL was founded. It was to GIVE MONEY to WC players so they could make a living. That is no different to today.

as for your comments that in 20 years there will only be SL and amateurs you are right. BUT unless SL can compete with other sports and RU in particular in 20 years there would only be semi pro RL: and professional RU. EVERY year the RFU gives 2 to 2.5 million pounds to each premeir RU club. that free money is more than the Giants make in a season from all of their income streams. If we cannot compete then they would BUY every single player from RL who was any good. therefore all you would be doing would be watching the second rate amateurs whilst the good players are at SALE, Bath or Leicester. that is why French RU got SBW and Mark Gasnier or maybe you do not rate them.


Reidy

Your comment about unfairness are true but iof we did not have a sugar daddy we would probably not exist and certyainly not in the form we do. the reality is that we are where we are. All we can control is that we are in the mix. One of us, Bradford, wakey or Cas will go next time . Therefore we have to make sure we are in with the best chance we can have. Ken Davy knows that which is why he has invested in the academy and cheap season tickets and NB to make sure that if someone gets cut next time it is not us.




Adelaide

If the game continues it will be in Ireland, Scortland and Midlands. Hopefully what will happen is that there will be a proper French League and Catalans are playing in it with their best teams being in a European cup with the 4 best english teams and the best of scotland Ireland and Wales etc..

As for the comment about enough away trips that is true but being in Adelaide i am sure you would complain about the distance of all games even the home ones.

I can't deny my comments DG, but we are one of the clubs at the birth of the sport. Not saying we have a god given right, but the RFL are focusing on distances etc.
If the Football League were to bring the same measures in, then what would happen to the London puffball teams, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, then Man U and City etc etc?

If distances were an issue, who would lose out?

The only option is more teams and games per season and how the hell would players at SL level survive a battering like that?

A big ask imho.

Gem Bob as much as i admire your principles i disagree with your reasoning you need to decide whether you r principles have any effect.
If you are wanting to prioritise being a Giants fan or a RL one. Either way you should be coming next week.

IF you are prioritising being a giants fan you need to be adding your 1 to the attendance as we will be judged on that in 2011. and getting behind the team


If you are a RL fan you need to bethere to show the greatest game still apeeals to a mass audience.


Boycotting the game may show your solidarity with Dewsbury or Widnes but has no effevt on them whislt supporting the Giants is sopmething practical you can do for them.

Go on GB, get yersen down and sound out at the ground.
The teams NEEDS YOU!!!

reidy wrote:

I can't deny my comments DG, but we are one of the clubs at the birth of the sport. Not saying we have a god given right, but the RFL are focusing on distances etc.
If the Football League were to bring the same measures in, then what would happen to the London puffball teams, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, then Man U and City etc etc?

If distances were an issue, who would lose out?

The only option is more teams and games per season and how the hell would players at SL level survive a battering like that?

A big ask imho.

But the reality is already there of the teams yoiu mention only 4 will ever be at the top table.

Arsenal, Chelsea, MU and Liverpool. They dominate not because they are the best in England but by being in Europe because it gives them so much money and publicity that they attract massive sponsortship.

Spend tomorrow looking at sponsors on RL and Ru shirts.

We have the university of Huddersfield or the GMB union. they have Guinness and O2. who do you think gets the most money. We have to compete to survive.

This is getting bad the more booze i drink the more spelling mistakes i make. .

Durham Giant wrote:

reidy wrote:

I can't deny my comments DG, but we are one of the clubs at the birth of the sport. Not saying we have a god given right, but the RFL are focusing on distances etc.
If the Football League were to bring the same measures in, then what would happen to the London puffball teams, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, then Man U and City etc etc?

If distances were an issue, who would lose out?

The only option is more teams and games per season and how the hell would players at SL level survive a battering like that?

A big ask imho.

But the reality is already there of the teams yoiu mention only 4 will ever be at the top table.

Arsenal, Chelsea, MU and Liverpool. They dominate not because they are the best in England but by being in Europe because it gives them so much money and publicity that they attract massive sponsortship.


Spend tomorrow looking at sponsors on RL and Ru shirts.

We have the university of Huddersfield or the GMB union. they have Guinness and O2. who do you think gets the most money. We have to compete to survive.

I know that fella, but the point I am trying to make, is this the same direction that Sky is trying to point RL in?

Durham Giant wrote:

This is getting bad the more booze i drink the more spelling mistakes i make. .

I've corrected some for you as well............

Durham Giant wrote:

This is getting bad the more booze i drink the more spelling mistakes i make. .

You have said it all mate, and very well too. Anyway It's my considered opinion that you are waisting your time with these two Whippet breeding Pigeon fanciers

reidy wrote:

Durham Giant wrote:

reidy wrote:

I can't deny my comments DG, but we are one of the clubs at the birth of the sport. Not saying we have a god given right, but the RFL are focusing on distances etc.
If the Football League were to bring the same measures in, then what would happen to the London puffball teams, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, then Man U and City etc etc?

If distances were an issue, who would lose out?

The only option is more teams and games per season and how the hell would players at SL level survive a battering like that?

A big ask imho.

But the reality is already there of the teams yoiu mention only 4 will ever be at the top table.

Arsenal, Chelsea, MU and Liverpool. They dominate not because they are the best in England but by being in Europe because it gives them so much money and publicity that they attract massive sponsortship.


Spend tomorrow looking at sponsors on RL and Ru shirts.

We have the university of Huddersfield or the GMB union. they have Guinness and O2. who do you think gets the most money. We have to compete to survive.

I know that fella, but the point I am trying to make, is this the same direction that Sky is trying to point RL in?

I do not like it either but the problem is that RL is too weak to survive without SKY. If we can compete maybe we could go to ITV or the BBC and stand on our own two feet . But we cannot so we have to accept it until we can get to that position and be independent

Yep, top and bottom of it mate.

By the way Bo, my Dad has pigeons, I don't. I hate the damn things!!!!

..................only cos o yer feet!!!

penninegiant wrote:

..................only cos o yer feet!!!

And the fact thats all we ate if the damn things came home out of the top 10 prize winners.....
Spitting feathers? I've done it mate!

Again some very good points made.

But i believe you are missing the point. In honesty i think some of the arguments for expansion are based on some fantasy which i don't believe will ever happen.

Laurie you said that teams like Dewsbury and Widness et al have had 100 years to get it right - arguably - but by those same principles haven't the public in Britain had just as long to get interested in and follow RL? Now you can blame expansion or whoever you want. The reality is people are not interested. The reason i believe is schools, i live in a RL stronghold and from Thursday right through to Sunday every week of the year could within a 2 or 3 mile zone go to watch a RL team. Yet my sons school refuses to have RL played at school. So what is the solution? Force it upon the Jehovas Witness style? No i dont think it is. Mark my words, 3 years down the line little will have changed in Bridgend and the RFL will make some excuse for them for give them another 6 years.

Talking about teams dying out i think it is stubborn for a few users on here how they disregard the nationals. Its that same selfish attitude the RFL took years back when the SL was created. It was to create a 'premier league' in reality it has robbed the very teams which kept RL alive over the years.

Some of you may know i coach a local RL junior side and referee the amateur game, i go all over the place to amateur clubs and the vast majority in their club houses have signed photo's of players they have brought through their ranks. Players who are at the top of the game today - Internationals. These kids have been brought through the game and are in SL because of the amateurs and Nationals. The amount of players to come through Dewsbury alone is astounding. I mean the majority of Ireland at the WC were from national teams and they did better than England.

The reality is its not about flat cappers or pigeons it's about loving the game of Rugby League and the difference is i get the feel some people love Superleague and the Giants. So much so they fail to see the game is dying before our very eyes and they are indirectly supporting it.

Gem Bob wrote:

Again some very good points made.

But i believe you are missing the point. In honesty i think some of the arguments for expansion are based on some fantasy which i don't believe will ever happen.

Laurie you said that teams like Dewsbury and Widness et al have had 100 years to get it right - arguably - but by those same principles haven't the public in Britain had just as long to get interested in and follow RL? Now you can blame expansion or whoever you want. The reality is people are not interested. The reason i believe is schools, i live in a RL stronghold and from Thursday right through to Sunday every week of the year could within a 2 or 3 mile zone go to watch a RL team. Yet my sons school refuses to have RL played at school. So what is the solution? Force it upon the Jehovas Witness style? No i dont think it is. Mark my words, 3 years down the line little will have changed in Bridgend and the RFL will make some excuse for them for give them another 6 years.

Talking about teams dying out i think it is stubborn for a few users on here how they disregard the nationals. Its that same selfish attitude the RFL took years back when the SL was created. It was to create a 'premier league' in reality it has robbed the very teams which kept RL alive over the years.

Some of you may know i coach a local RL junior side and referee the amateur game, i go all over the place to amateur clubs and the vast majority in their club houses have signed photo's of players they have brought through their ranks. Players who are at the top of the game today - Internationals. These kids have been brought through the game and are in SL because of the amateurs and Nationals. The amount of players to come through Dewsbury alone is astounding. I mean the majority of Ireland at the WC were from national teams and they did better than England.

The reality is its not about flat cappers or pigeons it's about loving the game of Rugby League and the difference is i get the feel some people love Superleague and the Giants. So much so they fail to see the game is dying before our very eyes and they are indirectly supporting it.

How can you say the rest of Britain has had 100 years to take to league when It's only ever been played up here, Now they are getting the chance to watch it somewhere else and that is wrong, You don't seem to be grasping the cruel fact that without Sky there will be no League to talk about, neither at Batley or Huddersfield or anywhere else.

When Super League was formed it was done behind closed doors, It was all wrong but It was done, and it can't be undone, Huddersfield just like most other teams were left out, Due to a lot of hard work and a huge slice of luck they got themselves in there, There has been no stopping all the other teams doing exactly the same, If they had not managed to get in there i would still be supporting expansion because Rugby league with teams in Wales ,London Scotland ,Ireland Birmingham and anywhere else is infinitely preferable to Rugby league nowhere,.
If you remember back Gem to summer rugby being started, the ten years prior to that Wigan had bought every Trophy available and the rest of Rugby League was dieing on it's feet, Whether we like it or not Sky has saved the game and Sky dont want teams in places like Batley or Hunslet they want teams in big cities, and he who pays the piper calls the tune. It may well take these teams years to establish themselves But as i said earlier most of the teams up here have had over a100 years and they are still failing.

Quins are often used as a example of a failing team, and yet after only 30 or so years( as opposed to over 100 years ) in a place as hard to break into as Paris was they will still get more fans than Dewsbury and Batley put together, And you say that there are schools where you live that wont allow League, Well as far as i know it is played in well over 200 schools in and around London. You seem to be suggesting that if the french teams and the Celtics had not been let into Super league , that would somehow have been the savior of some of these NL sides who would somehow be now forging ahead, Presumably just like Widnes and Fax. Widnes may well be back to even things up a bit either side of the hill, I reckon it will expand to 16 teams next time so the door is open, But we can forget about this P&R that was supposedly the driving force of the game. If i remember right ,there was never any P&R before 1973 so in fact it is something that was relatively new to Rugby league anyway.

As i have said before i would like to see the NLs get a realistic share of the TV pot, but the vast majority of them are only ever going to be feeder clubs for Super League IMO, I think a great opportunity was lost when some of the clubs didn't merge to form Super League clubs, Most on hear will probably be horrified by that, and would probably say something like " i would never go again before i would watch my team merged with any other " Well not me mate I would watch any team "Merged or otherwise" before none at all, I know most don't feel like that ,especially fans of most NL sides, cause they are abandoning there teams without them being merged, and then blaming it somehow on the RFL or Celtic or Catalan.

As far as Quins go though Bo, they are the only RL team within a huge radius.
Needless to say that any Southern based RL fans are going to flock there for a piece of the action.
Dewsbury is in-between Huddersfield, Batley, Wakey, Le£ds, Bradfo*d, so the bigger teams are always gonna canvas on their doorsteps.
Although the Rams have a modern ground etc, it is rarely full.
Unlees people can afford to go to SL games and support NL1 as well, thats the way it's gonna stay.
London Bronco's was a PR excercise anyway and that is all. It was a good way for Sky to spread the religion of RL which ain't a bad thing, but there are other teams who I would have said deserved a higher profile in RL, even some of the Cumbrain teams.
Workington, Whitehaven and Barrow definitely.

Bo Jangles post is so very true like it or not.

When Ken Davy made his announcement abot the cheap season ticket deals he also made a veiled threat about it needing to be successful about Huddersfield wanting RL.

The game is now a cut throat business and all notions of romanticism about the traditional teams etc has to go out of the window.

There are TWO stark choices now when it comes to RL

1 A fully professional premier competition based on Expansion backed with SKY money. the development of a proper and international credible tournament.
A number of teams below that playing semi professional Rl ( who become feeder clubs for the big 16 or 20) possibly splitting at some point to play in two different conferences or alternatvely reverting to playing in their national leagues). Playing in good quality stadiums with strong youth development


below that a smaller group of semi professional teams who are feeders for the big clubs playing youngsters or players at the end of their careers.

Below that lot of amateur teams where peole play for the love of the game and pie and peas after a match.

Option two a game played in the M62 corridor in dilapted stadiums with no money at a semi pro level where all the talent is scouted by RU. Which tries to survive on crowds of a few hundred . It will continue but will eventually die out as youngsters would rather play a game played by their heroes who are on TV all the time or in the glossy magazines.

The issue for RL is not which one it will be but whether or not huddersfield are part of it.

GEMBOB all that you can do by your actions like all of us is to do your best to be there for the Giants to keep ken Davy on board and to make sure we survive. Get yourself to the Celtic game

my main pint about not expanding too much is the travel for the normal /everyday fan.. at the moment its local and you can watch your team most weeks home and away etc... noticed a comment by reidy about dewsbury not filling their ground etc after 100 years allthough it is modern ... our ground is modern but we dont fill it.. its taken 11 years of superleague to get a good crowd... because of cheap tickets / winning mentality

if dewsbury, batley were in the super league for years on end they would get good crowds, just look at the cougars who managed a good average when they were succesful in the nfp/nl1

i prefer good local derbies to loads of expansin.. for me , enough is enugh

Bo i do understand what you are saying - please don't think im deliberately disagreeing with you for the sake of it - I just don't agree with you.
Whilst i completely understand what you are saying i feel you are wrong.
You mentioned Paris having more fans than Dewsbury after a few years - thats obvious if you ask me. There are over 2 million people in Paris and one RL team. I don't know what their attendance was. But when you consider Dewsbury has a population of 54,000 and quite a few RL teams ill bet Dewsbury have a higher attendance ratio.

Again in regards to schools 200 out of how many? I mean don't get me wrong, 200 is fantastic but were talking about a city with a population of nearly 8 million and having no other RL SL team within 200 miles. Their cachement area must be 10million +
People simply aren't interested BO.

By your reckoning and theory we should abandon clubs who have been around for 100 years, clubs who have kept the RL game going, clubs who before SL did win trophies, did have good attendances. For what? A few Welsh who aren't interested and a few Londoners again who aren't interested but might be in 30 years.

In regards to Sky i have to take your word that what you say is what happened in regards to expansion since i don't know. But if Sky have called the shots like that then i can only suggest the RFL needs to grow some balls and get a better marketing director. I do know that the average game on Sky is watched by 200,000 people. That is out of 10million Sky subscribers. According to a little research 77% of all Sky Subscribers take Sky Sports that's 7,700000 people. 200k is a decent following. The RFL MUST have had some leverage in regards to the game.

For me Adelaide is spot on. RL is great because it is a local family. Because every away game is no more than a quick journey away. It is alive and well and thriving up North - Just look at Hudds att. Surely its common sense to sell the game to those already interested and in an area saturated with the sport.
What you are suggesting Bo is akin to pitching up a stall in Wales and trying to sell Scotland Flags. Ok a few might buy some - but you wont sell anywhere near as many as you would in Scotland.

I'm sorry but its a no brainer as far as im concerned. In 20 years from now it will be interesting to see the progress expansion has made. I believe we will be back in a situation where the only teams are up North and sadly we will have killed off our nationals.

Just a few quick points because this is one of those topics where feelings are so entrenched that rarely do peple change them. [Please don't ask me where I got the facts from, I simply remember them from 'somewhere'.]

RL is the fastest growing sport in the London area.

RL is the fastest growing sport in Univesities - and has been for 10 years.

Ten years ago people would have been aghast at the thought of a RL Varsity game between Oxford & Cambridge - and it is shown live on Sky.

RL IS growiing, whether people like it or not. The sport's administrators appear to be doing there best to continue the growth.

You never know, in 20 years time we may be able to go back to supposting our local teams travelling between Yorkshire & Lancashire WHEN:

RL is played in more European countries & they have strong teams;
Super League consists of 1 team per region in the UK;
there is a national Premier League within the UK.

Just my thoughts.

Some great posts there Particularly from DG and Ivor, And Scot you answered your own questions there, IIRC Dewsbury turned down the chance to go into Super league when they won promotion on the grounds that they would not be able to hack it financially, and would probably finish up in the same situation as Fax and Widnes did.

Stu are you saying that we should turn down crowds of 10,000 in a City of say 1.00000 because it is only 1% of the population (if it is ) but at the same time accept 5,000 at Dewsbury because It's 10% of what's available, That makes no sense to me at all mate.

I totally understand where you and No9 and others are coming from, It is nice to be able to pop down the road to Odsal or wherever, I along with the Likes or PG ,Ivor, Shogun and many more did just that for donkeys years, You were just born 50 years to late mate cause Great as it was ,It all finished up with League dyeing on It's feet and If Sky hadn't come along, not even people like Ken Davy would have been able to save the game.

When you talk about no brainers ,to me what fits into that category better than anything is to have say 12 teams in west Yorkshire fighting for the same fans, It's a recipe for exactly what is happening, Places like Fev and Dewsbury just dont have the population to survive at Pro level, Yes they did used to be able to when the game was only semi pro and there was very little competition for peoples time and money, But them days are gone.

Scot said people can't afford to watch a Super league side and also there own local side (say Dewsbury ) absolutely true and people are making their choice, The Rams are going down crowd wise ,the Giants are going up, and they need to continue to keep on going up, or they will also fall by the wayside.

It's a crying shame mate i know but the days and times you yearn for are gone. I miss them as much as anybody, but i would miss the game a lot more if it didn't exist at all, I think anyone who thinks that shutting down the expansion clubs and giving the money to the NL clubs would solve anything is sadly mistaken, because as soon as the Sky contract finished Murdock would pull the plug and within 5 years League would be right back where it was Pre summer rugby, Dyeing a very rapid death every where, not just in Bramley or Rochdale or wherever. Very sad but very true.

Refs for the two Easter games

Huddersfield Giants v Celtic Crusaders 7.30pm
Ref R Silverwood TJ C Leatherbarrow TJ M Hawkes IG G Stokes IG S Tordoff RR P Ward MC K Leyland

Hull Kingston Rovers v Huddersfield Giants 2pm
Ref B Thaler TJ P Grundill TJ P Wharton IG J Roberts IG G Dolan RR M Craven MC S Cross

I have a feeling both will be tough games but if we peform like we can and have been doing then 4 points is not out of the question.

Lets get behind the team again