N Brown

Has another of his team selection misfires, Murphy who has not put a foot wrong" Leftout". Just when we need some muscle up front, Mason "granted not at his best" left out for Moore who is apparently better , and add to that Chan moved away from his best position, we have been through all this before with exactly the same results, Que the Examiner " we didn't play smart rugby", Well we did play smart rugby for 50 minutes and then the Wigan forwards decided to just brush us aside, Despite some great efforts from Fa-alogo and Eorl, ( thank god Hock was not in the mood to play). The speed from the piemen in the last 30 minutes swamped us, they were making 5 yards with 3 of our men hanging onto them, and in the backs (our supposed strength) well we didn't have a replacement back did we? we moved a SR out of position and played 3 hookers instead of bringing in Murphy.
If we are going to play a lightweight pack against a team like them we have to beat them with speed or get mullered.
If Richards had of been playing it would have been a lot worse cause the kicks would have been going over, so in the end we got off light.
On a final note of frustration, I have never in all my days seen a Stand Off tackled in possession as many times as Grix.

Agree emtirely !
The lad was doing OK at full back for me
Then they move him and put Eden there who some fans now castigate for his errors
Not me !
The man that didnt make errors didnt try owt!
But yes --he needs to concentrate a bit more and cut em owt!!
Now back to Grix
Dont worry Bo theres still time to move him to loose forward! - and Eden to stand off --and Murph to FB

Now -Where we gonna put Kevin??

Need those bits o paper again!!

Cant wait to see where Wellens will be next season!

For my money,we still appear to have the same problem as last year,not clever enough/organised enough on attack when in the opposition 20 metre zone.The difference between what Wigan did compared to we did was very noticable.They constantly ran second man plays at us,holding up our slide,and creating overlaps.When we went wide no decoys coming at angles back towards the posts just ball through the hands,this is one reason why Grix at 2nd receiver had to step inside a fair bit,because there is nothing happening out wide for him in terms of a decoy so that then he can to look to put the arcing runner through a gap.

Other points,Wardle was a big loss,our left edge defence looked all at sea,it seemed that KB was defending at left centre for most of the game,but Chan & Gilmour kept getting sucked infield leaving that edge exposed,and if you can get Grixy in one on one defence the chances are he'll come off second best.

Plus Wigan totally dominated the ruck,was impressed with Dudson & Mossop,not to mention Crosby & Lima when they came on.Got 3 into the tackle often,they dominated the first up collision most of the night,which meant slow ptb's from us and another reason why Grix kept hold because then their ob's were able to get up quick on the outside.They put a lot of pressure on Broughy's kicking game too.

We've played some good stuff this year no doubt,but if we want to win trophies we are going to have to improve even more.That performance showed that Wigan are on another level.Don't think we can rely on Charlie making a bust and offloading on an edge and tries coming on the back of that,or an Eden solo effort,or just short side plays.IMO the top sides like Wigan & Wire can cope with that mostly and are better structured on attack when they get in our red zone.So whether on the back of this display we are going to be the nearly men again we will have to wait & see.

Final point,Thaler did us no favours in this one.The offside pen he gave which piggybacked the Goons on the 4th tackle that ended in their first try was very harsh.Then towards the end of the first half Robbo carries the ball up,gets clobbered on the noggin by both Finch & then Hock.Lazy arms maybe but still head shots,not surprising Luke spilled the ball.Then Crosby steps off the mark on an exit set but nowt forthcoming from Failure.Big decisions those in such a tight game as it was then.

All fair comment mate, the season is not over because of one game but those are games we have to win if we want to finish with a trophy, We can go on forever saying things like it's only 1 game every time we lose to a decent side, or think where we were 10 years ago, the bottom line for me is, we competed very well with probably the best side in the league for 50 minutes With one of NB special selection teams, and then we just ran out of steam( especially in the forwards ) which then completely stuffs the backs, In defence we looked like rabbits in headlights for the last 30 minutes. It just seems when we play against the Wakey's and Widnes's we turn on the style and everyone gets the idea we are a top side but we wont be a top side till we beat teams playing like Wigan did and we win something. We are where Warrington were a few seasons ago ( the nearly team ) well we have to emulate Warrington and climb to the next level , I don't care what it takes If we want to be a big team we have to find a way, and i for one don't see that way being in letting players like Lunt go and getting players of lesser quality on what seems to be no more than a whim, I'd also like to know why players like Cudjo Mcgillivray Grix and Mason are going backwards.

Don't expect many will agree with my thoughts, but Hey Ho that's life as they say.

I think Cudjoe is very much a confidence player. He needs someone to constantly believe in him, give him the confidence and he is one of the best backs in Super League. Jerry has been targeted this season, he's still doing a good job, but needs to learn one or two more tricks now to keep the opposition guessing. Personally I think Grix is more suited to full back and there is an argument that we have too many ball players now. Eden, Brough, Grix, Robbo and Brown all on the pitch together. Mason has yet to get the regular minutes in to properly judge.

When is LOD and Fairbank back?

matt01 wrote:

I think Cudjoe is very much a confidence player. He needs someone to constantly believe in him, give him the confidence and he is one of the best backs in Super League. Jerry has been targeted this season, he's still doing a good job, but needs to learn one or two more tricks now to keep the opposition guessing. Personally I think Grix is more suited to full back and there is an argument that we have too many ball players now. Eden, Brough, Grix, Robbo and Brown all on the pitch together. Mason has yet to get the regular minutes in to properly judge.

When is LOD and Fairbank back?

I would agree with most of that Matt, Mcgillvrey is very good in certain area's and generally speaking he he lets no-one down in attack ,he carries the ball up very strongly and looks for support when he is blocked from scoring himself. Cudjo is a quality player who plays half the time like he is playing for his school team, he comes up with a flash of real class then goes back to his laid back style, Both of them together are constantly sucked in off their wing and we concede lots of try's on the outside of them.
You are right about Mason, but he is not going to get his form back if he is overlooked for the likes of moore, Grix has always played his best football at full back right back to his Widnes days, we desperately need a Stand off in the Briers mold, he makes Warrington tick, and he's not tackled with ball in hand often, Finch is beginning to look similar at Wigan, also you are right about too many playmakes, too many bosses and not enough grafters, We are capable of playing some classy football but i truly don't think we are capable of maintaining the intensity that is needed ( although i desperately hope I'm wrong )
Again It's only my opinion but N Brown has to take his share of the blame for Friday, Yes he is a good coach ( a very good coach ) but he does make some baffling decisions in his team selections, Fridays team would have come through against 2/3s of the league but against teams in the top 3or 4 not much chance, To me in a game like Fridays you need your absolute best team out, I would happily have conceded 50 points to Salford next week if we could have beaten Wigan by one point, but the difference in class was there for everyone to see, We need to up our desire and intensity if we are going to kick on.

This coach that everyone keeps telling me is fantastic is looking rather normal at the moment. Not professional and ruthless enough if you ask me but heyho it's only my opinion.
We still need a standoff (when I say standoff I mean class not a fill in)
Play like that against Wire in C/Cup and we will get a right mullering, powder puff defence was shocking on Sunday, let's get a bit of fire back, let Mason and Faalogo off the tight lead Browny and let em get nasty.
Jeez

It would seem we are going through our typical mid season slump in form. Last year we never really recovered. Lets hope Nathan has learnt his lessons and this time we get to top form sooner rather than later.

I have been saying for 3 seasons now that if we are to win a trophy we need a world class stand off half & ditto loose forward who isn't injured all the time. That's where we must splash the cash. Otherwise it's just make do & mend & yet another season with an empty cabinet.

I was delighted when I thought we were getting Todd Carney. A specialist 6 who has the lot. But I should have known it was too good to be true.

I honestly think if we had Brough at 7 & Carney at 6 we might have a pot or two by now. If only.

As for NB, so far he has made us "the best of the rest". We're above the rest of SL sides in general but still not genuine contenders. JMO.

If we had signed Carney and he had stayed on the straight and narrow we would be the best team in Super league, but that is a BIG IF. We couldn't get him and the rest is history. Nathan has done a very good job in turning us into the nearly men. He can still get us that trophy, but time is running out for the man. He needs to get us back on track and that's not just the odd scratchy win, but true form at the right time in the season. Fingers crossed both Brown's can bow out on a high.

We could do with a top class 6,one who can defend strongly on an edge as much as anything else.However you could have Wally 'the King' Lewis in at 6 for us at the moment and he would struggle because of a lack of organisation.This is why I feel a bit sorry for Grix he gets the ball looks wide and all he sees is confusion with decoys and potential receivers all out of synch with each other,running wrong lines,at the wrong times.Make no wonder Grixy has to step back inside and hold on to the ball.This has been an ongoing problem imho.

I agree with that totally Def. Alot of the time when Grix is criticised for being caught in possession it is due to the fact that the runners he is supposed to be passing to are either MIA or all over the shop so he has to hold the ball or lose it. Fair point that.

I can see where you guys are coming from, but then surely the training and/or tactics needs looking at as this has gone on for a few games now.

Normally when we play the 'less strong' teams and our forwards are bending or punching holes in the opposition line,on the back of that we can get good quick ball to the outside backs in some space and do the damage on the edges.The problem in my view is when we are up against the strong sides,who match us up front.When you get good field posn against these guys you have got to make it count,and that means good structured attack,basically talking 2nd man plays,or 3:5 moves(or a variation)I don't pretend to be an expert at all,and NB could probably write more on the back of a postage stamp than what I know,but I'm only commenting on what I observe,and the good structured attack is what I see the top teams do to us when they get in our 20/30 metre area.Check the first try scored by Warrington at ours this time as an example of what I mean.Good structure around Briers as the pivot.Chances come few and far between against the top boys,you have got to be able to execute the plays when it matters.

Salford ran second man plays at our right edge last week and it really troubled us.Led to 3 tries I recall.That type of structure would have troubled any edge defence imo though.

Often wonder if we should have kept Brett H,and converted him into a stand off half,I'm pretty sure he could have done a job as the pivot.Possibly lacking a kicking game,but having runners coming off of him I have a feeling would have brought success.We'll never know.

We'll just have to see what the coaching staff can come up with in future to try and improve things.

Whatever it is, it needs to be sustained improvement so we peak at the right time. Yes we are going through a dip in form and yes we need to get out of it, but we also need to make sure we don't see another dip in a few months time.

I was at a function last night and was talking to someone who is activly involved at the Giants, I asked him if he could throw any light on what's going wrong, His reply was, I really really don't know but i know that N Brown is just about the most dedicated man i have ever met, Just thought i would mention that in view of the stick i have been giving him lately. I have to say i remain unconvinced myself but Hey Ho

Dedicated and committed?

He's been leaving for the last 3 years and announces a few games in this year he is going home at end of season only to sign for Saints...

I reckon the Aussies have a different definition to dedication than we do...

Gem Bob wrote:

Dedicated and committed?

He's been leaving for the last 3 years and announces a few games in this year he is going home at end of season only to sign for Saints...

I reckon the Aussies have a different definition to dedication than we do...

I think he meant on a week to week basis Gem, but as i said i remain unconvinced myself.

BO JANGLES wrote:

Gem Bob wrote:

Dedicated and committed?

He's been leaving for the last 3 years and announces a few games in this year he is going home at end of season only to sign for Saints...

I reckon the Aussies have a different definition to dedication than we do...

I think he meant on a week to week basis Gem, but as i said i remain unconvinced myself.

I've heard that too, but I bet that can be said for many top coaches in many sports. Its how productive you are with the time. It would appear that early in the season Nathan is very productive, but it generally suffers as the season goes on. Fingers crossed he has learnt lessons and this season will finish differently.