Salford and the Giants

Things are looking very grim for Salford at the moment, It seems that the Council are unable to help them any further than they already ( allegedly) have, and if the figures being talked about are anywhere near the truth they need something of a miracle, There doesn't seem to be a way out at the moment, The silence is deafening from the club itself and also the RFL, I have a strong feeling the RFL will be keeping their head well down hoping that people will forget the lengths they went to to help Bradford, That may be a bit unfair as the Club hasn't provided any facts as to what the true position is and it doesn't appear that the cases are like for like ( bit too early to know )
The end result could be the loss of a club " which Rugby league can well do without " On top of what happened at Wakey and then Bradford in the last 18 months or so , it kind of brings the true state of rugby league into focus, Like most things in the Country at the moment it is not all that healthy and there will no doubt be more clubs on the brink.
You have to draw certain parallels with the Giants, Mr Davy has stated that the club needs to be self financing, which could be interpreted as saying " i am coming to the band end with financing the club , Salford suffer from the same thing as the Giants but to a larger extent " Soccer " The new Stadium " like the Giants did not prove to be their salvation, But their owner has not got either the same commitment or the same amount of money and has reached the end of the road.
You have to feel that with the precarious state of the game, the Giants ( and others will not be far behind ) In view of the strong competition from Soccer and the depths that Fartown had sunk to they have done reasonably well to increase their crowds to what they are, Unfortunately they are nowhere near enough, 10,000 is the minimum required, and this season if they manage to hold their own they will do well. So what is the answer ? Well for me , one of the reasons for the limited increases in fan numbers has been the promise of success on the field and the chance of silverware, we all know how that has ended, and like the patience of club chairmen the patience of Fans runs out, The upside of that is that Fans come back pretty quickly if the slump doesn't last long.
There is a lot of talk and rumor about a reduction of clubs in Super league, also about going back to P&R maybe the Salford situation will contribute to this , i don't know but the Giants need to be well up the league and in a strong situation if any of this transpires, I don't know what the season ticket position is but at the proper price they can afford to sell less without losing money i would have thought, The truth is that if the product on the field is right people will turn up to watch and if they can win something they will get people going who will only watch winners, All this needlessly to say has to start to happen this year before Mr Davy calls time, To find a replacement for him may be all about impossible but it would certainly be a lot easier with a succesfull side.
Personally i hope Salford find some way out of their predicament, and i hope the Giants never get in it , Next season could be massive.

The Trouble with the game today is, winning is the sole object full stop.
In our earlier days, yes of course we wanted to win, but the main thing was going to enjoy a game of rugby and if we won more than we lost we would be happy enough. It was not a case of win at all costs or the speccies will stop coming.
How times have changed.

Straightforward really if you don't wish to see our club in the same strife as Wakefield,Bradford and now Salford,just back Ken Davy with season ticket money each year,even if you have to miss a couple of home games.

defleppard wrote:

Straightforward really if you don't wish to see our club in the same strife as Wakefield,Bradford and now Salford,just back Ken Davy with season ticket money each year,even if you have to miss a couple of home games.

I would have thought it would be a lot more straight forward for the the team to play to something like their potential and give Fans something to want to go and watch.

As long as the players carry on like they did second half of last season any appeals and plea's by Mr Davy will fall largely on deaf ears, Although i have to say that whoever is in charge of the running of the club has been as bad if not worse than the players with the blunders they have made, perhaps Mr Davy should appeal to them to do better.

Well all this threatening to withdraw support because we don't wipe the floor with allcomers is playing a very dangerous game.You say what Davy is doing isn't good enough,so you are assuming someone with similar finances and enthusiasm is going to replace him when he gets stalled of not getting the backing he needs from supporters.The Salford chairman appealed to new investors,and his appeal largely fell on deaf ears,and they are in crisis.
That is the future for us if we don't back Ken with our season ticket cash.
Can't believe anyone with the Giants at heart would allow a Salford type situation to happen to our club,but if enough withdraw their support cos of disappointment over some performances,that is exactly where we are heading.

Sadly DL - whilst all on here are allowed their say -I think some of the younger end miss the point
This happens on other forums as well that are allied to the Giants

Faith is an admirable quality
Blind faith is not IMO

Some who are scoffed at on several sites are past the latter

They (and I include myself ) have heard the talk before
And we ve seen the results and policies before --so please excuse a tiny bit of doubt

However many have tried --it will not change my views

We have stuck by this club in worse scenarios than at present --and will continue to do so till they shut the coffin lid

But willing them to do well /and buying replica shirts / and singing our hearts out for the lads will only go so far --again IMO

But I am being honest -hand on heart --so please believe me!!

We have renewed and I will be there and I will give praise where praise is due

But I wont be diplomatic --show undying devotion - and go home with a smile on my face if we dont perform
Sorry but it will not happen

Similarly my wife and son - if they arent being entertained (sport I have said many times IS entertainment) will damn well say so like some other devotees on here who could never be classed as glory hunters or fly by night supporters

KD`s efforts have been magnificent and should be recognised

But he is the figurehead and paymaster -the day to day /season in and out is down to others

And whilst many would argue with me (and strongly!) i have seen many more instances over the years where behind closed door policies and decisions have slowed and reversed this clubs progress

Yes --mistakes will be made from time to time
Yes KD has his heart and soul in wanting us to be successful
Yes he wants us supporters to buy season tickets at now more realistic prices to maintain or improve the clubs long financial viability -and most on here who in these difficult times CAN afford to WILL

But in between him at the top -and us theoretically at ground level are quite a few branches that sadly all the optimism and undying faith that some "younger" supporters epitomise cannot influence.

Firstly the performance levels and consistency that season after season we do not maintain
That is only something that the team and PA / and his backroom team can work on

Secondly is the policy making decisions on how to spend the "season ticket" and gate money plus ancillary incomes that go towards the running of this club - KD and the "management team" are privy to that and whether or not we`ve bought tickets wont influence that in any way whatsoever

I put it to you that whilst I and others will maintain their support (and unlike others -will voice their displeasure when they feel it justified ) that is NOT according to receny rhetoric the clubs dilemma

It is the problem that so many of the "moaners" who used to sit and stand along side me have lost patience along the way and believe me will take a lot of "converting" to become full time supporters again

Add to that the other younger possible converts who wont take the plunge like us "faithful"
My view is that the only way you will get those on board (sadly) is to WIN SOME SILVERWARE

Believe me -- I really want to try and convince you that NOTHING would please me more and that Im not pedding pessimism however it sounds to you

I`m peddling my view ot realism My View - I dont believe its yours
Im not wanting to even sway you -youre entitled to whatever you believe

Lets hope some of both our dreams come true this season or soon for all involved
I hope they do for me --I hope they do for you !
Cos whilst the game itself HAS changed -the old saying hasnt

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS - and its been in short supply for the converted and possible converts far too long unless youre much more easily satisfied than me -we`re all different though!

Give it some thought !

And now to bed!

Unfortunately we are not like prem league soccer where they have huge fan bases,and if a percentage withdraw financial support they can absorb the losses.Our fan base is small as it is,so to lose a similar percentage could be the road to disaster.

Waverers should back Ken Davy now,he is our best chance for success,who knows what the future will be when he has gone.Some may not like what is happening now,but a future without him could be very bleak.

Surprised that so many seem to be prepared to put at risk the club's super league status just because it hasn't quite happened yet on the field.

Don't forget there are many enemies at clubs like Huddersfield Town,Bradford Bulls & Wakefield Trinity who would love nothing more than to see this club fail,and if that's brought about by internal dissent they would take even more pleasure from that.

My opinion is buy an ST,then have a moan if you want,but always buy the st if you can possibly afford it.

A lot in what you say --but have bought 3 --so presumably we can have 3 moans as and when appropriate Thanks pal!

Rod, that was brilliant, if l could stay sober l,m sure l could write things like that
loading up for Xmas ,,Feliz Natal

defleppard wrote:

Unfortunately we are not like prem league soccer where they have huge fan bases,and if a percentage withdraw financial support they can absorb the losses.Our fan base is small as it is,so to lose a similar percentage could be the road to disaster.

Waverers should back Ken Davy now,he is our best chance for success,who knows what the future will be when he has gone.Some may not like what is happening now,but a future without him could be very bleak.

Surprised that so many seem to be prepared to put at risk the club's super league status just because it hasn't quite happened yet on the field.

Don't forget there are many enemies at clubs like Huddersfield Town,Bradford Bulls & Wakefield Trinity who would love nothing more than to see this club fail,and if that's brought about by internal dissent they would take even more pleasure from that.

My opinion is buy an ST,then have a moan if you want,but always buy the st if you can possibly afford it.

DL I am not assuming anyone is going to take over the Giants when KD calls time , Just the opposite in fact, I am saying ( and have said many times ) That if the club doesn't become self supporting it will be in deep trouble, I feel you and i are reaching the same ends but by different routes, You seem to be saying buy a season ticket to support Mr Davy, don't worry about success on the field, that will come this season , next season , sometime , never, but that's not important, the important thing is to make sure you buy a season ticket to support Mr Davy and the fact it hasn't quite happened yet on the field shouldn't make any difference.

I am just as big a fan of Mr Davy as you and i would wish him the same success as you, But he has shelled out year after year on better and better players, built better and better teams who have year after year failed to quite make it happen yet, Now you tell me who is letting Mr Davy down, the much vaunted ,very well paid players with guaranteed salaries, or the fans , some of who have to juggle their finances just to keep their head above water.

I don't blame you for believing that our day will come, Me and many others have felt the same for 60 years and more, and to be fair there have been 2 truly great days in there + a few memorable one's, but it is now50 years since we won anything , The people the Giants need to attract have never seen them win anything, some of them may have seen them in a couple of finals neither of which they looked like winning ( even though they were a better side than one of them ) To get these people in they need to produce the goods on the field, A winning side playing top football is the best way to get the fans in IMO, You and anyone else can keep paying for the next 20 years in the hope of winning something, and then another 20 after that,
Money has not been the big problem in the last few years, they have had the players and the teams, they have just failed to deliver, they have in fact missed the boat time and time again,
and appeals by Mr Davy wont change that, If things do in time go the way of Wakey ,Bradford and Salford , then don't look to blame Fans who stumped up, ( some over many years ) Fans who as i have said have to budget their money, Mr Davy needs to look closer to home for the reasons we don't get 10,000 crowds.
If there were 10,000 PG's and the like there would be no problems, but there ain't, Unlike him my patience has run out, If the team perform like they did first half of last season i shall probably spend more than i would have on a season ticket. If it's like the second half i won't be anywhere near the stadium, for that i make no apologies to anyone, It wont have anything to do with not wanting to back KD it will be because i am no longer prepared to pay and watch tripe, I will judge them on the field rather than what they say in the examiner, and i fancy a lot of others will do the same.

defleppard wrote:

Unfortunately we are not like prem league soccer where they have huge fan bases,and if a percentage withdraw financial support they can absorb the losses.Our fan base is small as it is,so to lose a similar percentage could be the road to disaster.

Waverers should back Ken Davy now,he is our best chance for success,who knows what the future will be when he has gone.Some may not like what is happening now,but a future without him could be very bleak.

Surprised that so many seem to be prepared to put at risk the club's super league status just because it hasn't quite happened yet on the field.

Don't forget there are many enemies at clubs like Huddersfield Town,Bradford Bulls & Wakefield Trinity who would love nothing more than to see this club fail,and if that's brought about by internal dissent they would take even more pleasure from that.

My opinion is buy an ST,then have a moan if you want,but always buy the st if you can possibly afford it.

My original covered most of your points that you make --except (after reading the above )--one vital one!! IMO

You are asking "people" ."fans" "supporters" to renew and support KD or risk putting the club`s SuperLeague status at risk !

I will quote actual facts here
I told you of fans who , unlike others on here, had lost patience along the way during the clubs history that perhaps you ere not privy to
That is not by the way an insult or criticism --I sense you are younger than me and Bo

I know that these "people" supported HUDDERSFIELD R L F C strongly
Not only that --they didnt just support them to maintain SUPERLEAGUE status
The supported them and help maintain their existence -full stop !!
Believe me - we were far nearer the well bottom than now !

So similarly - I do not cast any criticism re their staying power

As I said and bo in other phrases endorsed - they then saw under Coulter, Murphy, and then Davy and Smith a resurgence that promised "better times" - buta as yet -sadly- for them (and their past experiences and promises when the did "shell out" and got nothing) -there is still in their eyes nothing tangible - the missing link is still missing
Till we find the "added extra" --the ones I know --who still have a dig at me and "pick" their matches- will (unfortunately for KD and in the bigger picture the CLUB ) still suck it and see

No -we are not like football
But I will say this
Liverpool /Arsenal/ Chelsea/ Man Utd / etc the big clubs who do get someone to step in when someone drops out with money - which helps them buy "names" - which helps them win games--which helps them get success
Why do they achieve this ??
Yes --they are in cities and have a large catchment area
But so are Southampton / Leeds / Leicester but they are slightly different

ONE VITAL ADDITIONAL FACTOR

Look back over the years and check statistics
It doesnt happen EVERY season -they cant all win the big ones

But their names keep cropping up !
And as Bo says - other than the Buddies cup - ours hasnt for too bloody long except as "nearly men"
For many -that regrettably doesnt count
They only engrave winners names on trophies

I said it in my other post
KD HAS done his bit and admirably -and he has my gratitude

And many who post on here have also done their "bit" and will continue to do so

But unless we get it right at the playing and managerial levels --NO RECORD SEASON TICKET SALES WILL BE ACHIEVED OR MAINTAINED IMO
As I say I admire your faith which is akin to that me Bo and SG had in years gone by

But we did see a "return" --and believe me it was good and enjoyable
But for some others who saw it - patience and priorities changed

I share your concerns re KD and your prayers for more to support him

But he , despite being a staunch "supporter" of the club , is also a businessman unlike those Ive mentioned whove left the fold

I strongly believe (but may be totally wrong) that unless the SUCCESS Ive mentioned appears on the horizon soon there COULD be another individual whose patience declines - and similarly others loathe to take the plunge into funding the club

JUST MY OPINION- so my fingers are still crossed !!

Top post PG

No,we heard it from the horses mouth (Ken) recently that he is as keen as ever for the club to succeed even after so many years,and if god willing, his health holds he has no thoughts of jacking his chairmanship in.Which was great to hear I thought,but what he also did say was how important it was for fans to back him and the club with season ticket sales.He said he couldn't emphasise how vital it was for the well-being of the club that fans purchased a season ticket,and that plea was good enough for me.

So to me,us as fans have a simple choice to make.Continue to back KD with season ticket sales and continue to see the club be competitive in SL or end up like Bradford or Salford,almost out for the count and if we survive face a long slow road to recovery like to the 'fords I have just mentioned are now going to have to do.If that happens then people will certainly have plenty to moan about.I know which way I want to see the club heading.

If you are blaming the players/coaches/chief exec for failure to win silverware,then you are in effect criticising KD,as at the end of it all he has the final word on the decision making.

defleppard wrote:

No,we heard it from the horses mouth (Ken) recently that he is as keen as ever for the club to succeed even after so many years,and if god willing, his health holds he has no thoughts of jacking his chairmanship in. *
Which was great to hear I thought,but what he also did say was how important it was for fans to back him and the club with season ticket sales.He said he couldn't emphasise how vital it was for the well-being of the club that fans purchased a season ticket,and that plea was good enough for me.

So to me,us as fans have a simple choice to make.Continue to back KD with season ticket sales **

-----and continue to see the club be competitive in SL***
----- or end up like Bradford or Salford,almost out for the count ****
and if we survive face a long slow road to recovery like to the 'fords I have just mentioned are now going to have to do.If that happens then people will certainly have plenty to moan about.I know which way I want to see the club heading.

If you are blaming the players/coaches/chief exec for failure to win silverware,then you are in effect criticising KD,as at the end of it all he has the final word on the decision making.*****

Like what you and I said

* With the greatest respect a man with his expertise in business looking for increased ticket sales would hardly say he had doubts even if he had DL

** As stated --we have !--3

*** Competetive --as stated not (in the circumstances) enough to lure the deserters back to the fold and newbies into it , DL But purely my opinion

****Again with respect --(per my previous posts) ask yourself what Bradford and Salford have won recently Particularly Bradford --they have in recent times had a much larger fanbase than us
Why --they WON trophies!! Thats the magic formula !!
When they became purely competetive ----the decline started EXCEPT for the real believers
No difference there then !

And finally --you interpret ***** as you wish
But again with due respect, as I stated previously I / Bo/ you can buy the ST`s ---we can sing our hearts out for the lads/---we can travel home and away --and purchase merchandise to help balance the books but as for me putting on a pair of shorts and coming on as an "impact" sub to score a length of the field hat-trick at Wembley ???
Sorry --those days are well past!! Maybe you?? So ask WHO CAN influence RESULTS
If it aint us --and it aint them..................................................??? --KD HAS got his work cut out!


As I`m saying --not out to "convert" you -- or bully or browbeat ! Just in my view being factual and realistic - my head`s not in the clouds these days

But without any bitterness (this forum aint like that gladly) I REALLY look forward to your next response mate !! Its called "healthy discussion "

defleppard wrote:

No,we heard it from the horses mouth (Ken) recently that he is as keen as ever for the club to succeed even after so many years,and if god willing, his health holds he has no thoughts of jacking his chairmanship in.Which was great to hear I thought,but what he also did say was how important it was for fans to back him and the club with season ticket sales.He said he couldn't emphasise how vital it was for the well-being of the club that fans purchased a season ticket,and that plea was good enough for me.

So to me,us as fans have a simple choice to make.Continue to back KD with season ticket sales and continue to see the club be competitive in SL or end up like Bradford or Salford,almost out for the count and if we survive face a long slow road to recovery like to the 'fords I have just mentioned are now going to have to do.If that happens then people will certainly have plenty to moan about.I know which way I want to see the club heading.

If you are blaming the players/coaches/chief exec for failure to win silverware,then you are in effect criticising KD,as at the end of it all he has the final word on the decision making.

The most memorable thing i've heard ken Davy say recently is " The club needs to be, and has to be self supporting in the future " now without drawing a picture that give a fair indication of which way the wind is blowing. Everyone knows how important season tickets are to the club, perhaps someone could stress that to the players, because however poor the response will be to season passes this year , it will be nothing like as poor as the performances were when it mattered last year.

You say the fans have a simple choice to make, Buy a season ticket or risk the club going the same way as Bulls, Wakey , Salford etc, Well i don't agree with you DL i think you have the Cart before the horse, I reckon it's the club and the players and staff who have the simple choice to make, They either come up with a decent consistent product and a genuine chance to win something or they will never get the kind of crowds Mr Davy wants. That is simple business ,whether you , me or anyone else likes it or not. People don't buy crap off a Market stall just to ensure the guy can be there again next week.

Your third point about blaming K Davy for the team/ coaches/ exec,s failure to win anything couldn't be further from the truth, I am in fact saying exactly the opposite, He has provided the money, brought in good players, coaches , sold cheap tickets, everything in fact to bring success, well last season as the one before, the Fans responded and increased their numbers , You say if they turn up to buy ST's in much less numbers this year they are letting Mr Davy down, and blaming him for the lack of success, I don't agree, myself i have not renewed directly as a response to what happened second half of last season, I could renew again on the strength of how good a side we are going to be according to what the players say in the Examiner, but i have been falling for that for 50 + years.

You may well not believe this but i admire and respect KD as much as any other person on this forum, I think he should be honored for what he has done for sport in this town, ( Although i am very mindful of what other people with a fraction of his money have done in the past, as PG has pointed out ) But at the end of the day if i go to watch the Giants it won't be because of any appeals by Mr Davy or anyone else, it will be because the team are worth going to watch, and if they aren't, then there are other things in life besides League.

Some long posts on here, like reading a book.

Fair enough,there are many who feel the way you do.Not performing so stay away.Problem is there are 17 lads on the other side of the pitch who are always going to try and stop our hero's from doing just what they want.

Which is why I have said before on here when Ken goes,that's the time I will go too.

When Ken goes I think a lot will go. We think performances are not up to scratch at the moment. Without his money, commitment and loyalty I fear we will rapidly become a bottom of the table side and soon after no better than Dewsbury or Batley.

Still whilst there is a side in Hudds I will support them. I've watched them on the terrace losing to Runcorn and you know what the wins then, which were few and far between were just as enjoyable as they are now.

defleppard wrote:

Fair enough,there are many who feel the way you do.Not performing so stay away.Problem is there are 17 lads on the other side of the pitch who are always going to try and stop our hero's from doing just what they want.

Which is why I have said before on here when Ken goes,that's the time I will go too.

This is just about where we came in DL, you will go when KD goes, With me It's all about the game and the way it's played rather than who owns the club.

Luckily we have a forum where we can get each others take on it, Lets hope we have a great season and we are all happy.

matt01 wrote:

When Ken goes I think a lot will go. We think performances are not up to scratch at the moment. Without his money, commitment and loyalty I fear we will rapidly become a bottom of the table side and soon after no better than Dewsbury or Batley.

Still whilst there is a side in Hudds I will support them. I've watched them on the terrace losing to Runcorn and you know what the wins then, which were few and far between were just as enjoyable as they are now.

Difference is Matt that the players were playing for maybe £20 winning pay then ,After working all week, I have hundreds of such memories, Workington and Whitehaven used to be a whole day of a job before the motorways, It was a long way home after a beating.

So ---DL you say you will go if KD goes !

Frankly THAT to me WOULD be tantamount to throwing the towel in worse than the faithful who lost faith.

If some of us had taken that stance we`d have gone when numerous other "investors" had gone over the last 65 years and particularly after we lost in the 62 final and onwards and downwards -- YOU really wouldnt be having the thoughts you are

KD has done good --no argument ! He has done fantastically well - you / me / and such as BO all agree

But MY hope is that the TEAM a lot of us have stuck with through thick and thin will be there for you and my lads to watch -and be successful --long after me Bo KD et al are daffodil manure

Your allegiance is noted -but to KD ???!!

I suggest --and again with the greatest respect- that you look at A FAR wider picture like Matt01

I support and have
Huddersfield Cicket and Athletic Club /aka Hudddersfield Rugby League Club /aka Huddersfield Barracudas/ aka Huddersfield- Sheffield amalgamation / Huddersfield Giants etc etc etc

and along the way there have been many "in control " administratively and on the playing side "--coaches / players / and directors
Some of each I have worshipped / admired / not liked / praised / and in some cases thought were crap and despised andrun over on a zebra!

I would strongly suggest among us older "faggots" there are many similar scenarios

As you have not yet answered the points I raised in my last post (the door is still open) I will make one final one

If "we" had taken your line of action when not agreeing with the direction the club/ management / team/ fans were taking and "gone" - I strongly suggest (as a season ticket purchaser for 45 years as you are presently "pushing" ) neither you or indeed Ken would have had anything to lose sleep over and we would not even be having this dialogue

Please think about it ! For its survival stick with the CLUB/ TEAM
That is what was a founder member of the RUGBY LEAGUE and has been around for nigh on 100 years before KD and others in a similar role

My prayer is that the CLUB/TEAM will still be around in "whatever" guise in 2112-and beyond
I truly hope so! ---but we`ll need that little bit of SUCCESS along the way !!!


and If I`m still around when KD goes - -I`ll hopefully still be in a position to get MY "season ticket" - get down there to support (or moan) and try and ensure I do my bit towards their survival for you younger end - at whatever level

And I`ll come on here and try persuade you to get a ST and join us!! Believe me --- I promise!!

Shogun wrote:

Some long posts on here, like reading a book.

But SG --whats yer prob ?
Dyer only read the Sun??


...............................and Ponner says youre free on here!!

So --like TV --switch off if its not yer thing!!

Don`t get a daily paper PG ( can`t afford one )
Only get the Yorkshire Post on Saturday.

Seriously though I did get the Mail or Express every day, but the Wife said I was getting to be a right VICTOR MELDREW, as I used to moan about everything that got on my t-t`s. So I started doing jigsaws, crosswords, and playing Ponner at snooker.

So now I only moan at the weekend, and after the news on TV.

Shogun wrote:

Don`t get a daily paper PG ( can`t afford one )
Only get the Yorkshire Post on Saturday.

Seriously though I did get the Mail or Express every day, but the Wife said I was getting to be a right VICTOR MELDREW, as I used to moan about everything that got on my t-t`s. So I started doing jigsaws, crosswords, and playing Ponner at snooker.

So now I only moan at the weekend after the game -- and after the news on TV.

(corrected for last season)

I would pack in with KD because I dont know if I want to go through all yhe building from the bottom all over again,and now I know how much apathy there is out there,makes me wonder if its worth the bother.

Still believe fans such as those on here should get an st if at all possible to give encouragement to Ken to carry on.If they take any fans support for granted then they are more foolish than I give them credit for.

My opinions were in response to the comparison with Salfords situation,and how we could avoid getting into similar strife.I stand by those comments.Salford need £600 k soon or its over for them.We need to bear this in mind,it happened to them,we need to make sure it doesn't happen to us.So back Ken despite disappointments.

PG will answer your points later,but must rush now.