@ Warrington - R26

Any chance in this one whatsoever?

I think Wire will rest a few to let them get over the cup final and prepare for the play-offs, however I think they will have learnt their lesson from the London game.

Have we a chance, not much, but with the pressure off hopefully they can go out and enjoy themselves and play for each other as a team.

Westwood out injured, otherwise a full squad.

Another reaming for us on the cards here I think. It'll be the same old story, half the lads will give their all, the others won't give a damn.

sparky wrote:

Westwood out injured, otherwise a full squad.

Another reaming for us on the cards here I think. It'll be the same old story, half the lads will give their all, the others won't give a damn.

If that happens then I think we should be questioning Anderson ability to sort this out. If we have some players who can't be bothered then drop them. Give the youngsters a chance, at worst they will gain some valuable experience.

Yep, agree completely. Get the kids in. At least they'll give it a genuine go.

What's happened to Fairbank & Walker btw? Anyone know?

matt01 wrote:

sparky wrote:

Westwood out injured, otherwise a full squad.

Another reaming for us on the cards here I think. It'll be the same old story, half the lads will give their all, the others won't give a damn.

If that happens then I think we should be questioning Anderson ability to sort this out. If we have some players who can't be bothered then drop them. Give the youngsters a chance, at worst they will gain some valuable experience.

This is where I'm at too now.If we don't see all 17 giving it 100% today,then PA's words are just hollow.

When PA came in early he was on a hiding to nothing,but he claimed he would wield the big stick,but I immediately thought to myself,who are the replacements you are going to introduce,when you have a few long term injured.

Not sure about just chucking the young uns in,Cording to me looks 'game' but lacks size.PA needs to be able to get the utmost now out of the experienced players he has got at his disposal.

As for Walker & Fairbank.Walker I believe is out for the season with injury,and is not getting another contract anyway from us.Fairbank,not sure,still having problems with the badly broken wrist from earlier in the season maybe? Can't recall reading owt int Examiner about his current status.

Some players missing due to a virus that's hit most of the camp and even some that will have to play today who aren't totally over it. It was already going to be a hard day at the office but it's going to be even harder now. Don't be too hard on the guys today if they get absolutely hammered.

.......................and though I missed it due to hols Ponner , from what ive just read over here it seems some just plain MISSING!!

IMO opinion whatevers gone on behind the scenes - the performances weve been subject to (and I mean suffered) are an insult to the faithful and KD and theres no hiding place !

Bar the Catalan win - the remaining performances have been a disgrace with players with more track record showing no pride in the badge

At the moment I aint joking - FEEL SICK!!- and totally let down!

As Oz says - effort -what effort!

Same Crap different day, Too many people at the Giants inc the coach are better jornalists than they are on the field, Mondays Examiner ! XXX player knows the Giants can still win the Championship, Tue's We can't wait for the Leeds match so we can put everything right, and so on, and on, and on, and from Anderson I'll get tough, Yeah play it again Sam.

Another woeful 2nd half capitulation. There is something seriously wrong. It's clear to anyone who watches the matches every week. Usually this nosedive in form was blamed on NB doing his hokey-cokey-will-I-stay-or-will-I-go? dance. But what's the excuse now?

I am seriously beginning to fear for the future of our club. KD will only take this for so long imo. Who can blame him?

[quote="sparky"]Another woeful 2nd half capitulation. There is something seriously wrong. It's clear to anyone who watches the matches every week. Usually this nosedive in form was blamed on NB doing his hokey-cokey-will-I-stay-or-will-I-go? dance. But what's the excuse now?

I am seriously beginning to fear for the future of our club. KD will only take this for so long imo. Who can blame him?[/quo
te]

The most worrying thing at the moment though is that whatever the problem was under N Brown , it is still with us and Anderson has been able to do nothing about it, in fact it has got worse if anything.

Like you i fear for the future of the club, they have had their best opportunity to make a mark in the game for Half a century and have blown it big style, There are maybe 6 players who if they have any sense will do whatever it takes to get to another club, the rest should seriously think about a change of profession. I just feel the club has played It's last cards, I hope I'm badly wrong but K Davy is not an idiot, he will be bound to call time soon, and who can blame him.
Only thing i can think of that will save the club is to have big sales of season tickets for next season ( extremely unlikely ) and a backroom staff that actually understands the quality and standard of players you need to compete these days ( also unlikely ) and most of all a coach who can motivate the players and get them wanting to play for him, just like N Brown did when he first came.

[quote="BO JANGLES"]

sparky wrote:

Another woeful 2nd half capitulation. There is something seriously wrong. It's clear to anyone who watches the matches every week. Usually this nosedive in form was blamed on NB doing his hokey-cokey-will-I-stay-or-will-I-go? dance. But what's the excuse now?

I am seriously beginning to fear for the future of our club. KD will only take this for so long imo. Who can blame him?[/quo
te]

The most worrying thing at the moment though is that whatever the problem was under N Brown , it is still with us and Anderson has been able to do nothing about it, in fact it has got worse if anything.

Like you i fear for the future of the club, they have had their best opportunity to make a mark in the game for Half a century and have blown it big style, There are maybe 6 players who if they have any sense will do whatever it takes to get to another club, the rest should seriously think about a change of profession. I just feel the club has played It's last cards, I hope I'm badly wrong but K Davy is not an idiot, he will be bound to call time soon, and who can blame him.
Only thing i can think of that will save the club is to have big sales of season tickets for next season ( extremely unlikely ) and a backroom staff that actually understands the quality and standard of players you need to compete these days ( also unlikely ) and most of all a coach who can motivate the players and get them wanting to play for him, just like N Brown did when he first came.

My sentiments exactly.

If the sales of season tickets drop dramatically next year with the price hike (ie by about 40-50% of this year's take up) & we don't win the CC (again, a million to one shot the way we are going), then I can honestly see Ken throwing the towel in. And let's face it, no KD, no Hudds in SL.

We realistically have maybe 10 players who are SL standard, & of those 6 who are trophy winning standard. All the rest of it is just talk. If we don't get silverware in the next 2 seasons we are done imo. We are literally hanging by a thread, and people either can not or simply will not recognise that obvious fact.

How long should the board give it before something else needs to happen?

Do we need a different head coach or is it something else? As others have said, the mistakes that are being made have hit the club at a very crucial time. It is nearly impossible for Robbie to sell season tickets when prices have double and the quality on the pitch has halved.

matt01 wrote:

How long should the board give it before something else needs to happen?

Do we need a different head coach or is it something else? As others have said, the mistakes that are being made have hit the club at a very crucial time. It is nearly impossible for Robbie to sell season tickets when prices have double and the quality on the pitch has halved.

It's the fact that the big increases have been announced on the back of an abysmal season second half, that make me think the situation is not good Matt, and my opinion for what It's worth is that not all the problems are on the field, The thing is that some of them may not be easy for KD to sort out. He has obviously made some mistakes ( as we all do ) but he deserves a lot better than he has had for his money, I feel i have been let down and i have only bought a cheap season ticket, What must he feel like, He must have extraordinary patience, but every one's patience runs out sometime.

You sparky and now it seems many who had a lot more optimism than realism have now started to accept these facts

Ihave hung on in even though my head said the same -its a sad situation we\re in

There are players out there like (to name a few) Eorl/ Broughy / Jerry / Robbo who 100% have the ability but really at the moment seem to have lost the will

Why Why Why Why ?????????????

That is what puzzles me most !
I worry deeply about it being a squad !

Bo Matt Ponner Prop and me all play different sports as part of teams - but speaking personally -it bloody hurts if I feel I could have done better for my team mates

It doesnt seem to bother the lads at the moment whartever the rehetoric --so whats gone wrong

This is where my previous sympathy for KD weras thinner

Is it down to high level decisions
Did the lads want NB to stay
Are they happy he\s gone
Atre they happy its PA
Is it ba 50-50 split on feelings
Unhappy about the selection process

We can only WONDER !!

and cant do a thing about it !

BUT KEN CAN - AND SHOULD IMO

Internal enquiry - speak to the squad - PA - management -et al on a one to one and get a grip

Read my posts 6-7 weeks ago and I said it THEN

whatever the reason -and there is ONE at least - IT NEEDS SOLVING

Not just sit on our hands - oh dear its gone wrong - and so Im buggering off!

Get a nbloody grip - find out whats caused the malaise and whatever measures and however harsh sort it !!

If joe public (particularly the faithful) can see something being done they may feel more willing to part with more and thats a start as its evident more income growth is needed and badly

But at the moment it just appears that its turn the other way and the prob will disappear

Sorry Ken -though it pains me to see it happening and to say it -- youre the leader and the man at the top
You built a successful co by making decisions that hurt at times I\ll bet

I think some are surely needed now and fast

penninegiant wrote:

You sparky and now it seems many who had a lot more optimism than realism have now started to accept these facts

Ihave hung on in even though my head said the same -its a sad situation we\re in

There are players out there like (to name a few) Eorl/ Broughy / Jerry / Robbo who 100% have the ability but really at the moment seem to have lost the will

Why Why Why Why ?????????????

That is what puzzles me most !
I worry deeply about it being a squad !

Bo Matt Ponner Prop and me all play different sports as part of teams - but speaking personally -it bloody hurts if I feel I could have done better for my team mates

It doesnt seem to bother the lads at the moment whartever the rehetoric --so whats gone wrong

This is where my previous sympathy for KD weras thinner

Is it down to high level decisions
Did the lads want NB to stay
Are they happy he\s gone
Atre they happy its PA
Is it ba 50-50 split on feelings
Unhappy about the selection process

We can only WONDER !!

and cant do a thing about it !

BUT KEN CAN - AND SHOULD IMO

Internal enquiry - speak to the squad - PA - management -et al on a one to one and get a grip

Read my posts 6-7 weeks ago and I said it THEN

whatever the reason -and there is ONE at least - IT NEEDS SOLVING

Not just sit on our hands - oh dear its gone wrong - and so Im buggering off!

Get a nbloody grip - find out whats caused the malaise and whatever measures and however harsh sort it !!

If joe public (particularly the faithful) can see something being done they may feel more willing to part with more and thats a start as its evident more income growth is needed and badly

But at the moment it just appears that its turn the other way and the prob will disappear

Sorry Ken -though it pains me to see it happening and to say it -- youre the leader and the man at the top
You built a successful co by making decisions that hurt at times I\ll bet

I think some are surely needed now and fast

Can't argue with any of that PG, i just have this horrible feeling that It's already too late, That we have already missed the Bus, The only thing i can see that will save the club is big season ticket sales, and for that to happen we need to win things and realistically that is just not going to happen, Maybe something big will change over the winter, we can hope but i am not confident, There is some underlying reason for what has happened, and as you so rightly say ,it needs sorting however painful or high up you have to go, It needs too change now ,if It's not too late already.

FWIW, my take on it is this.....

It's never too late to make a bad situation better BUT certain conditions must be met in order for this to happen, namely:

1)There must be a clear goal & a direct sense of purpose. KD must say"O.K., this is what we are going to achieve and this is how we are going to GET IT DONE. " No mucking around dithering with pie in the sky nonsense, just going from week to week & hoping for the best. Set a goal, get a concrete plan of how to get there & do the job. No excuses, no weekly Examiner platitudes, just get on with it. That's what the rest of us have to do in our working lives, so why is sports any different?

2) Have everyone pulling in the same direction. If any player/backroom staff cuts up rough then give them a P45 & tell them to get out & shut the door behind them. Now is the time for all hands on deck, not moaners & passengers who are just nicking a wage.

3) Forget about what lies far away in the distance, just do what lies clearly at hand. The rest will take care of itself if this approach is adopted.

4) The Challenge Cup. I've said it until I'm blue in the face but there is only five games to win in this comp & you get a trophy. This is manageable for any side. This comp must be the focus & target for next season. Use the league games as practice & learning for the Cup campaign. We can't get relegated & we won't lose a franchise in the next bidding round so GO FOR THE CUP!!!

Win the Cup & real success in the league will follow.

sparky wrote:

FWIW, my take on it is this.....

It's never too late to make a bad situation better BUT certain conditions must be met in order for this to happen, namely:

1)There must be a clear goal & a direct sense of purpose. KD must say"O.K., this is what we are going to achieve and this is how we are going to GET IT DONE. " No mucking around dithering with pie in the sky nonsense, just going from week to week & hoping for the best. Set a goal, get a concrete plan of how to get there & do the job. No excuses, no weekly Examiner platitudes, just get on with it. That's what the rest of us have to do in our working lives, so why is sports any different?

2) Have everyone pulling in the same direction. If any player/backroom staff cuts up rough then give them a P45 & tell them to get out & shut the door behind them. Now is the time for all hands on deck, not moaners & passengers who are just nicking a wage.

3) Forget about what lies far away in the distance, just do what lies clearly at hand. The rest will take care of itself if this approach is adopted.

4) The Challenge Cup. I've said it until I'm blue in the face but there is only five games to win in this comp & you get a trophy. This is manageable for any side. This comp must be the focus & target for next season. Use the league games as practice & learning for the Cup campaign. We can't get relegated & we won't lose a franchise in the next bidding round so GO FOR THE CUP!!!

Win the Cup & real success in the league will follow.

Well that sounds great sparky and i can't fault your way of thinking on being single minded, I also think that the CC is the most realistic chance we have to win something, we have proved that a couple of times recently, We were outclassed by one side and lost to another who we had been better than all season, we also had a real shot at the Grand final and were not disgraced on that, in fact that was by far our best performance.

The only thing is our side is way off good enough to have a realistic chance, and how does anyone say to KD we need to spend some serious money and stop messing about with a huge squad of mainly average players, How do we get players like Patrick hitting the line like he was, or Cudjo showing the same sort of 80 minute interest that got him playing for England, and i could go on and on.

The first thing i would do is stop people, either Players or coaches from writing tripe in the Examiner, all they accomplish is to make themselves look foolish, they are paid to play rugby on the field, not to keep telling us how they can't wait to sort things out or how they have let every one down, I could write a piece in the Examiner saying how i can't wait to face Tiger Woods, Words are cheap and don't mean much, It's on the field that counts.

We are somewhere about where Warrington were 5 years ago maybe if some one was to study what they did and copied it we might get somewhere, They started by getting rid of a long line of very average Coaches, we tried that and he had some sort of wobbler and lost the plot, doesn't mean we can't try again, I don't know if Anderson will be any good but we can't wait long to find out, and so far i have been underwhelmed, ( may be unfair ) but again i would be a lot happier if he kept out of the local paper and concentrated on his job.

BO JANGLES wrote:

The only thing is our side is way off good enough to have a realistic chance, .

I agree with this 100% with regard to winning the League, our squad is miles off being good enough. However, I do believe that the CC is different. There have been plenty of squads that have won the Cup in the last 20 years that wouldn't have got close to winning the League in the same season. Look at Wire 2009, good enough to win the Cup but not SL. Also, what about Leeds 1999 was it? And then there's Sheffield Eagles.

The one thing that most of the teams that win the CC have in common is that (bar Sheff) they usually go on and win the League in the following 2 or 3 seasons because the CC victory has

1)Taught them what it takes to win a showpiece final

and

2) Attracted better players to the club by dint of a Wembley victory

Also, I think I'm right in saying that the prize money for the CC is £250K. That would go a long way at Fartown.

We have to go for the CC in my view, there is no viable alternative. Even with the squads we've had in NBs reign, it was possible.

It's a mindset thing in my view. Fartown don't win because they think they can't. That is the factor that must change.

The problem with the challenge cup is that hardly anyone takes any notice until you get to Wembley. We could meet Wigan/Saints/Wire/Leeds in the early rounds and be out, then where does that leave our season? We need to focus on each and every game and want to be better than the last. To be better than the Wire game isn't difficult, but it would be a start.

matt01 wrote:

We could meet Wigan/Saints/Wire/Leeds in the early rounds and be out, .

This is precisely the point I'm making Matt. If we focused entirely on winning the CC, use the League games as practice for the Cup campaign (as you say, to get better & better each round) and make sure that the team's collectively peaked for each Cup match, to make each Cup match a GF & CC cup final in itself, I think it would see us through to Wembley & onto the winners' podium. It wouldn't matter if we , say, got Wigan away in the first Cup round as we'd be mentally & physically ready for it after weeks of consolidated prep.

What is the genuine alternative? Get an early exit from the Cup because we met a big side & then say "now we can concentrate on SL" only to finish mid-table with nothing yet again?

It's all part of the point I made earlier about Fartown not believing they can win. If we make the CC the be all & end all of the season, we will have a far better chance of winning it. And let's face it, no CC trophy, no SL trophy as far as I can see anyway.

The only people who are stopping Fartown winning the CC is Fartown themselves. Why fear any opposition? Let them fear us & the devil take the hindmost.

Lets look at Wire. Before this recent success they were bouncing around the bottom half of the league. Then Tony Smith took control and immediately performances improved match by match and that very same season they beat us at Wembley. They haven't looked back since. If we are to do similar we need a coach who wants and demands constant improvement and most importantly gets it from the players. Can that be done at our club? If so then fine focus next season on the cup, but until we can demand that from players we will win nothing without a massive amount of luck.

matt01 wrote:

Lets look at Wire. Before this recent success they were bouncing around the bottom half of the league. Then Tony Smith took control and immediately performances improved match by match and that very same season they beat us at Wembley. They haven't looked back since. If we are to do similar we need a coach who wants and demands constant improvement and most importantly gets it from the players. Can that be done at our club? If so then fine focus next season on the cup, but until we can demand that from players we will win nothing without a massive amount of luck.

I agree. Any coach worth his salt will demand week upon week improvement. Spot on.

What I'm proposing is this. Let's USE that week by week improvement and focus it to a specific end ie: a victory at Wembley. Knock the Cup over & the League will follow.

All we have to do is win 5 games & the Cup is ours. To win the League you need much much more than that.

A trophy is CRUCIAL now to our top flight survival imo. We have had half a disastrous season & folk are leaving in droves. Win the Cup & it will bring in at least 2000 more supporters the following season imo.

matt01 wrote:

Lets look at Wire. Before this recent success they were bouncing around the bottom half of the league. Then Tony Smith took control and immediately performances improved match by match and that very same season they beat us at Wembley. They haven't looked back since. If we are to do similar we need a coach who wants and demands constant improvement and most importantly gets it from the players. Can that be done at our club? If so then fine focus next season on the cup, but until we can demand that from players we will win nothing without a massive amount of luck.

Agree with this and i thought N Brown was that coach, till it all went pear shaped. I do get what Sparky is saying and i agree about the CC being our best chance to win something ( as it is for every other team ) I don't quite see how you can sort of use the league games to limber up for the Cup though, If you get on a loosing streak, or you start to sort of gear your performances to peak for each Cup game, i feel you are likely to spend most of the season kicking around the lower reaches of the league, with no guarantee of winning each and every Cup tie.

I haven't looked into this ,but i would be pretty sure that every side that wins things has a very good coach, They may differ in style enormously and this will no doubt be reflected in the teams style of play, Warringtons flamboyant style under T Smith, as opposed to Bradfords under B Noble, The one thing is that the best coaches are very good at what they do, irrespective of the style they coach, I think that T Smiths side is similar now to the powerful Bulls side of a few years ago, Bradford would simple pound teams into submission and then the Backs would make hay, T Smith seems to have the perfect combination, What both have in common along with wigan is they all know that you need big strong aggressive forwards , and that is exactly what we don't have. without them you will win nothing IMO

Thing is until this season we had a pack that was as big as any, but we've let big lads go and not replaced them. Griffin, Raleigh, Kirmond, Horne were all big units who took it out of the opposition.