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 O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction

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defleppard
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PostSubject: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:35 am

In administration now and less than a week to find a buyer or that club is gone.

In many ways it's sad,a famous club,yet I don't remember much sympathy coming our way during our own bad days.We had to cut our cloth accordingly and languish in the lower leagues for many years.

When you read the amounts of money they owe the tax people,it makes me even more grateful for what Ken Davy has done for us over 15 years or so now.It must have cost him millions just keeping the club afloat.

Also their players become free agents now,and if they want to move to other clubs or remain loyal that is their choice.So we should have no qualms about employing anyone from that club.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:10 pm

It is sad for Bradford. I can't get my head around how things have got so bad. There is a salary cap to stop clubs spending too much and Bradford have one of the bigger supporter bases too.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:02 am

Seems like they have been a victim of this latest recession,in that their bank saw fit to cancel their overdraft fairly suddenly.

There is some argument as to whether Bradford selling their main asset - the Odsal stadium to the RFL - was the key factor in the bank withdrawing it's support.

If the bank withdraws and then there is no benefactor to cover the debts,you are up crap creek no paddle.

Keeping Odsal up to scratch in terms of spectator health & safety issues drained a lot of cash out of that club so they say.Plus gambling on continued success on the field of play to help keep them solvent.

The administration clearing the debt was hopefully a chance for new investors,but the way they are talking it seems like there is no one waiting in the wings as of right now.

There for the grace of god go we if not for the foresight of a former head of KMC, John Harman who was the main driver behind the building of our stadium and of Sir Kenneth of Davy,who has and continues to invest so much of his own personal fortune.

Personally I don't go along with all this they are a big club with a big fan base so are a special case.If someones takes them on well and good.If not they will have to rebuild from new.As I said in a previous post,being totally skint was something our own club had to live with for years before KD,and we received little sympathy for our plight.

A section of Bradford fans were very condescending towards our club during their good years,so don't have much consideration for them,because I know if they are saved they will be back on our case straightaway,crowd numbers,merger,Ken Davy etc etc,but you do feel for their genuine fans, for whom it must be heartbreaking.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:36 pm

defleppard wrote:
Seems like they have been a victim of this latest recession,in that their bank saw fit to cancel their overdraft fairly suddenly.

There is some argument as to whether Bradford selling their main asset - the Odsal stadium to the RFL - was the key factor in the bank withdrawing it's support.

If the bank withdraws and then there is no benefactor to cover the debts,you are up crap creek no paddle.

Keeping Odsal up to scratch in terms of spectator health & safety issues drained a lot of cash out of that club so they say.Plus gambling on continued success on the field of play to help keep them solvent.

The administration clearing the debt was hopefully a chance for new investors,but the way they are talking it seems like there is no one waiting in the wings as of right now.

There for the grace of god go we if not for the foresight of a former head of KMC, John Harman who was the main driver behind the building of our stadium and of Sir Kenneth of Davy,who has and continues to invest so much of his own personal fortune.

Personally I don't go along with all this they are a big club with a big fan base so are a special case.If someones takes them on well and good.If not they will have to rebuild from new.As I said in a previous post,being totally skint was something our own club had to live with for years before KD,and we received little sympathy for our plight.

A section of Bradford fans were very condescending towards our club during their good years,so don't have much consideration for them,because I know if they are saved they will be back on our case straightaway,crowd numbers,merger,Ken Davy etc etc,but you do feel for their genuine fans, for whom it must be heartbreaking.

An understanding attitude in view of whats happened in the past, However Bradford's fans were never to blame for our plight in the past, no more than we are to blame for theirs.

There have to be a few reasons for the situation they find themselves in now and as far as i know you are right about the bank pulling the plug on their overdraft, once the Stadium was sold, The banks are not known for their generous natures, they are better know for their generous bonus's " to themselves "

IMO" and that's all it is " the biggest factor by far in the Bulls demise was the signing of Harris when he came back from union, As i remember it, he had signed a contract with Leeds saying that they would have first call upon his services should he return but when he did he signed for the Bulls in a deal that was sanctioned by the RFL allegedly, and the then chairman at the Bulls was no man to be told what he could and could not do, so seeing a chance to strengthen their already strong side the Bulls signed him on, thereby cocking a snook at Leeds and everyone else as well.

Now you have to remember when all this took place, For 10 years of Super league the Rhino's had been living in the shadow of the Bulls, which understandably had not been going down well, And the Rhino's wanted their pound of flesh, the Harris situation was the perfect way to extract it. I don't know who had the right and wrong of it but the Leeds obviously had the stronger case, and a bigger wallet with which to fight because in due course the Bulls had to admit defeat and settle out of court, That is pretty much what happened as far as i know.

So we now have a situation where the bulls have to pay Leeds a lot of money, " that like most clubs " they don't have and we all know how it has gone since then, selling off of their top earners = poorer and poorer results = less and less fans, On top of this they were saddled with a stadium that is a money pit , and i suspect the RFL bought it to keep it in Rugby league, and possibly in exchange for monies owed, However it removed the Bulls collateral and in turn their Overdraft.

The bottom line of all this is bad management along with other things has brought them to where they are. The thing is though that no-one except perhaps some NL 1 teams " maybe not a bad thing " will benefit if the Bulls are relegated, All the local sides will lose one of their biggest crowds for one thing, and let no-one doubt that the Bulls are indeed a big club, they have proved that over the Super league years, their record is second to none other than Saints, and of all the Super league clubs , They more than any other embraced Summer Rugby, they made it a family day, and they pulled in crowds that we and many others still dream of aspiring to, In fact even now at their lowest ebb they will still be pulling in crowds close to ours.

IMO they will not leave Super league , I expect " and hope " that some one will step in and take them over, The people i feel sorry for are the one's who have put their money into the club including the fans who pledged money to keep them alive, they are the one's who may loose out.

Unfortunately since Super league came into being much of the sport has gone out of the game and more and more of the business side has come to the fore, It has become a case of weakest to the wall, and a Sod you I'm alright Jack sort of a sport, Bradford's plight is seen by many as just a chance to plunder their better players, and if the boot was on the other foot the Bulls themselves would be just the same, No wonder we are so far behind the Aussies, they put more money into Junior football than we invest in the whole game below Super league level.

So although it may be a chance for many fans to gloat a little at Bradford's plight ( which is understandable as it's human nature ) I bet K Davy is praying some one takes them over, He will want the 10.000 gates that are possible when the Bulls and the Giants are playing well, As i said earlier their will be no winners in Bradford's demise.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:09 am

Yes it must be said they do have a good fanbase,after all only fairly recently they were pulling in 20k+ home crowds for their derby with the Rhinos,and often these were televised contests.

Wonder if I'll ever live to see a 20k+ crowd down at the Galpharm for a Fartown game.

Running RL clubs is indeed a full time business,but some of these otherwise successful guys let their hearts rule their heads when it comes to sports club ownership.

I remember their previous BB chairman C.Caisley (now back on the scene at Odsal) saying the best way to improve the game in this country was to keep importing overseas players,no restrictions,then the SL standard would rise,crowds would improve,and that the money made could be poured back into junior development.It was a point of view worthy of consideration,but history has shown it wasn't quite the utopian ideal he was expecting.

Agree with the overwhelming majority of your post,but as for plundering of players,well this was an accusation thrown at us by Wakefield fans after their recent problems.However no one forces these players to move clubs,and who could blame any player who is facing uncertainty for looking for stability.

Hope the Bulls get a saviour at the last minute,my only concern is that their are rumours of other clubs running into financial problems,Salford being one who keep getting mentioned.The new ground there hasn't attracted the sort of crowd numbers they wanted.(Looked quite empty on Friday) and they say they have lost income streams by leaving the Willows.

Our own ST prices are set to rise next year.Can't blame KD,there are those who say,(despite his fantastic generosity) that he set them too cheap this year,and now if same people are asked to pay out a larger single amount for a cup game (say between 20 & 25) they just compare that price to the overall 2011 ST price and complain it's too much.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:49 am

defleppard wrote:
Yes it must be said they do have a good fanbase,after all only fairly recently they were pulling in 20k+ home crowds for their derby with the Rhinos,and often these were televised contests.

Wonder if I'll ever live to see a 20k+ crowd down at the Galpharm for a Fartown game.

Running RL clubs is indeed a full time business,but some of these otherwise successful guys let their hearts rule their heads when it comes to sports club ownership.

I remember their previous BB chairman C.Caisley (now back on the scene at Odsal) saying the best way to improve the game in this country was to keep importing overseas players,no restrictions,then the SL standard would rise,crowds would improve,and that the money made could be poured back into junior development.It was a point of view worthy of consideration,but history has shown it wasn't quite the utopian ideal he was expecting.

Agree with the overwhelming majority of your post,but as for plundering of players,well this was an accusation thrown at us by Wakefield fans after their recent problems.However no one forces these players to move clubs,and who could blame any player who is facing uncertainty for looking for stability.

Hope the Bulls get a saviour at the last minute,my only concern is that their are rumours of other clubs running into financial problems,Salford being one who keep getting mentioned.The new ground there hasn't attracted the sort of crowd numbers they wanted.(Looked quite empty on Friday) and they say they have lost income streams by leaving the Willows.

Our own ST prices are set to rise next year.Can't blame KD,there are those who say,(despite his fantastic generosity) that he set them too cheap this year,and now if same people are asked to pay out a larger single amount for a cup game (say between 20 & 25) they just compare that price to the overall 2011 ST price and complain it's too much.

Sadly DL I doubt we will ever see those sort of crowds to watch Fartown again , I wish it were otherwise.
The former B Bulls chairman you mentioned is the one most Bradford fans blame for the situation they are in and the one who will possibly soon be back in control ( Who knows ? )

I was not criticizing the Giants for signing Wakey player, they are no different to any other club in that respect, Leeds ,Warrington etc will be in like a flash for the BUll's better players given the slightest chance,( hence my comment of Sod you i'm all right Jack ) and the players will have little chance but to go, they have a living to earn just the same as anybody else, Just as a matter of interest It's worth a mention here that the spirit of the Bulls players this last few weeks is a credit to them, they have really jacked up there performances, and for that reason alone i hope they manage to come through.

You are absolutely right about the state of finances in the game, i would hazard a guess there will be maybe 3 clubs that are not running at a substantial loss, Wakey Crusaders and Bradford , all gone down a in a couple of years. Without Sky the game would be back to semi professional by and large ,with a couple of teams winning every Trophy going. It's a sad fact that Rugby league can't stand on its own feet, there 's lot's of opinions why and probably most of them contribute, my own opinion is the main reason has been the lack of investment of any of the Sky money at any level below Super league, " the same I'm all right jack " . So all in all I'm not surprised KD has to put the ticket prices up, no one can keep propping a club up indefinitely.

At the moment i personally don't feel like i will renew my ticket next year ( although that may change ) It wont be because of the price but because of the complete lack of success in winning something so far, we have the players and the squad to have done much better than we have, 1962 was the last time we won anything meaningful , that before 3/4s of the fans were even born, Rightly or wrongly i feel the squad and the coaches ( particularly the last few years ) have not delivered, for one reason or another , so if K Davy was to walk away tomorrow, I would say thank you for what you have done and good luck.

If the Bulls do fold in the next few weeks ,at least they will be able to look back over the last 15 years and remember all the Trophies they racked up.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:40 pm

More twists and turns than a Corkscrew in this one, Latest theory is a conspiracy between CC and the Administrator, whatever is going on It's all very irregular and for my money it's beginning to take on a distinctly unpleasant odour.

One thing iv'e read on another Forum is that should the Bulls disappear, It would wreck absolute havoc with the League, with the Magic weekend having to be declared null and void. Must admit i hadn't thought of that.

And now the RFL are to advance the club 200.000. If the club disappear ,where do the RFL get their money back from, If a new company plays in Super league do they get another 200.000 and would they even have a licence to play anyway.

Some very queer goings on which we shall almost certainly never get to know the truth of, My money is still on the Bulls to be in Super league.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:17 am

As of today (Friday),they are saying there is still no firm offer for the beleaguered Bulls.

They have until next Tuesday to find new owners.

RFL have said that club will fulfill their 2012 fixtures whatever happens,but not sure what logic there would be in that,with a scratch team minus no doubt the best players just copping hidings.

For their sake I hope someone steps in to save them even if it is at 11.55 pm on the Tuesday night.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:03 pm

defleppard wrote:
As of today (Friday),they are saying there is still no firm offer for the beleaguered Bulls.

They have until next Tuesday to find new owners.

RFL have said that club will fulfill their 2012 fixtures whatever happens,but not sure what logic there would be in that,with a scratch team minus no doubt the best players just copping hidings.

For their sake I hope someone steps in to save them even if it is at 11.55 pm on the Tuesday night.

If the RFL are saying that DL ? I would interpret that as they know something we don't, I can see that happening if the get a buyer, or even if they are run from Administration, If after Tuesday they are liquidated then there is no club to play anywhere, all players contracts would be null and void, and they would become free agents. As the players seem to be the clubs main assets ( maybe only assets ) it is in no ones interest ( not even the taxman's ) for the club to be liquidated, but it appears that this is what will happen if they don't find some one who is prepared to take on their debts as well as their assets. I would be surprised if the Tax people would allow anyone to take them over without settling the taxes, they may well prefer to force them into liquidation just to make an example of them, Who knows.

Could well be a few twists and turns in this yet, At the moment I'm still backing the bulls to remain in Super league.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:26 pm

C`mon Caisley

All mergers arent bad!! Wink

Bradford Bluesox --makes sense !! Smile Wink
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:09 pm

penninegiant wrote:
C`mon Caisley

All mergers arent bad!! Wink

Bradford Bluesox --makes sense !! Smile Wink

It would make sence to me PG if i was a supporter of either club, But you know rugby league fans better than most, If wakey and Fartown or Fartown and Halifax were to merge or disapear, We both know what would happen.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:41 pm

Seems a bit of interest is being shown in the Bulls at the last minute, It's always at the last gasp that the interest surfaces, a sort of take it or leave it offer, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if something hasn't been worked out before now, What gets leaked out to the public rarley is anything like what is actually going on.

One thing that made me laugh was in the report today ,The administrator was disappointed by the amount that was raised from Sundays game, it was expected that far more people would have payed on the gate and not used their season tickets, This despite them already having coughed up 500.000 , Unbelievable.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:11 pm

2nd revised offer from the ABC consortium rejected by RFL,as they (ABC) still want the purchase of the Bfd club to be under their own terms & conditions.

RFL say they won't pay Bfd's August's wages neither,contrary to reports.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm

Its not looking too rosy over there at the moment. However the desire being shown by their players and coaches is second to none. Sometimes when your backs are to the wall you produce remarkable results. Lets hope the group of business men can get a deal sorted that is good enough for the RFL.

We could do with helping them with the wage budget by taking Gale and one or two others off their hands.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:37 pm

WHAT???????????

SLE takeover Bradford

Surely this would just be for a few weeks until a decent independent board can be found.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:21 pm

Seems there's still a few twists and turns in this yet Matt, Sounds like madness to me but i have always thought the RFL will do whatever it takes to save the Bulls, Personally i see the RFL and SLE as one and the same thing, or at the very least they are a share owner in SLE as are the Giants, so i suppose you could say that the Giants will be helping to pay the Bulls wages and such, With the RFL already owning the Crater it all sounds a very messy business. Curiouser and Curiouser.
The thing that has really amazed me when reading the various forums, is the number of Fans that want Bradford to go bust, No wonder League is a minority sport.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:32 am

At least Bfd will still have their own stadium come what may,so I think the RFL have done them a favour in many ways by rejecting the ABC offer.Would guess ABC were anxious to get the lease on Odsal so they could sell it to developers and at the same time move BB to VP soccer ground.Jumping into bed with soccer is fraught with danger,especially when you are regarded as the tenant.

Gonna be a strange atmosphere when Bradford comes to ours in a couple of weeks time.Wonder if KD will do the same gesture as Leeds and give all the money taken over the visitors turnstiles back to Bradford.



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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:10 am

I too want to see a team continue in Bradford but this should not be at Super League level now. No-one good enough wants to bale them out so without the money behind them they should be eased into a lower division and build once more, hopefully this time on more stable foundations. If this is the plan from SLE then it doesn't sound quite so mad.

Those delighting in the demise of Bradford should remember that could well be us when KD finally calls it a day. We depend massively on his generosity, without it I don't think we could afford to be a super league club in a large stadium.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:53 am

Absolutely,there for the grace of God and Sir Ken go we.

Looking like they will have to rebuild from the championship 1 level.That's not the end of the world for them (if they get an investor) Fartown struggled for years in a similar situation.

Sad for them,but I think the RFL are doing this right.If Bfd lose Odsal then their future really could be in grave doubt going forward.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:39 pm

I think its disgusting. If it was any SL club they wont have stepped in.

Just really angers me for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:37 pm

Wouldn't say I want Bradford to go bust but I would say I want them punished and punished severely for spending money they didn't have.

They enjoyed all the success so now it's time to deal with the aftermath, all tw RFL and SLE have done is encourage other teams to live beyond their means.

Where was the help for all the other teams who have struggled and what makes Bradford a special case? Oh yes I forgot the RFL own the ground and would be stuck in limbo with no club to pay em rent on it!!!

Stinks to high heaven if you ask me, SPL up in Scotland haven't helped Rangers and they are 1 of the 2 major players in that league.

Not sure I want to watch a sport in which I can't trust the governing body to be unbiased.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:52 pm

I think it is just a effort to keep Bradford in the league till the end of the season, If no independent buyer has come forward by then i would expect them to be gone.

I do understand all the anger towards Bradford as they seem to be getting special treatment, but on the other hand few clubs have had a better deal than the Giants from the RFL, A good example is the one million they received for what essentially turned out to be the removal of Sheffield from Super league, Not many Giants fans were happy about it but it still happened.

I don't like the idea of Super league owning another club at all, it seems crazy to me, but another point that is regularly made on this board, is that Huddersfield doesn't deserve a rugby team because they can only pull in 8,000 supporters ( at home ) well by that reckoning Bradford pulling the kind of numbers they have , and do, definitely do deserve a team, whether this is the way to ensure it is very debatable, either way we shall never know the whole story.
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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:22 am

bradford should also be forced to offload some star players on big wages, why should the sl or other teams subsidise a team who are spending more than they can afford

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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:20 am

They keep their top players because the deadline for the administration to end keeps getting extended,as we hear of more potential investors ready to step in.The RFL are duty bound to investigate these offers,only for them (so far) to be deemed not suitable.

Yet this saga must be coming to a conclusion soon,one way or the other,as the RFL say they will not advance any more cash for the Bfd players August wages.





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PostSubject: Re: O/T Bradford Bulls facing extinction   Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:00 am

BO JANGLES wrote:
but on the other hand few clubs have had a better deal than the Giants from the RFL, A good example is the one million they received for what essentially turned out to be the removal of Sheffield from Super league, Not many Giants fans were happy about it but it still happened.

We have to remember though,that back then mergers were solely the RFL's invention,or should I say M.Lindsay's invention.The governing body were actively encouraging clubs to merge offering financial incentives.(Really that should be Yorkshire clubs as Lindsay had no intention of seeing any Lancs side teams move in together,that didn't appear to be on his agenda) Plus after he came up with the idea of mergers his plans were then put to the rest of the RL clubs,and they all were content to go along with his scheme.

Sheffield Eagles decided it was in their best interests to look to merge,no one put a gun to the head of their then directors and forced them into it.

Originally the newly merged SL club was not to have either Sheffield or Huddersfield in it's title,it was going to be named 'Yorkshire Nomads' or some such title.Huddersfield Giants RLFC were to operate in the what was then known as the Premiership.Sheffield Eagles RLFC were to cease to exist.

The new fangled SL 'Yorkshire Nomads' were set to play out of the McAlpine & Bramall Lane (SUAFC)
HGRLFC were to play out of the McAlpine.

Then the Association of Premiership Clubs went back on their word to allow HGRLFC into their competition.

That was the point that the whole farce should have been brought to a halt - imo.

The whole merger lark and the funding provided was about SLRL continuing to be played in the Sheffield area in the form of the Nomads.


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