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 One step forward

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BO JANGLES
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PostSubject: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:55 pm

In fact a lot more than 3 in the first half of that game, I was embarrassed watching that even on TV, The gulf in class between the two sides was so big that any neutral fan must have wondered how the hell Huddersfield have got up to 3rd in the table, we know why, It's because here and there they have put in some very good efforts, sadly last night was the low point in a couple of months of declining form, we have ground out a couple of half decent wins( Dragons comes to mind) but in all honesty we look a shadow of the team we have been.
I don't know what has brought this on, maybe the loss of Brough has had more effect than we think, Certainly he has become the Giants main play maker and the lack of his kicking and turning the opposition round must be a real blow, to the pack especially, Whatever Grix is he is no substitute for Brough and IMO should be left at fullback, The kicking game from all the players in the first half was abysmal, though it did pick up marginally in the second.
The pack i thought looked like boys against men, either Carvell or Westwood on their own were worth any two of our forwards, i have been saying for some time now how woefully short on aggression we are, Last night was a perfect example, The better sides forwards tackle with the intention of knocking the opponents down, they are fast out of the blocks and their momentum knocks the player backwards, Wigan are another side who do this, Our players in comparison tend to drag the players down which usually results in them being 3or 4 metre's nearer our line. Player like Westwood, Carvell etc are no better than our big men, they are just more aggressive with a far better technique.

Another thing that shouts at you with the Giants is, the ease with which the outside backs are pulled infield, maybe they feel they need to bolster the forwards, i don't know but the opposition can do it with such ease that at time it's embarrassing, The most of Mcgilvray's tackles on his opposite wing are shoulder charges into touch, that's because he is having to get back from inside where he has drifted too.

Anyway the good bit is that for 20 minutes the team got it together and played well, in fact had they been able to hold the ball for more than one tackle they may even have pulled off another score, but the dropped balls and endless penalties put an end to those ideas, I did think things picked up a bit when Wood came on, maybe he should have had a lot more game time.

I questioned earlier in the season about the worth of having such a big squad, although i can see the idea behind it , in truth it doesn't seem to have worked too well for us. For me Nathan Brown has to take a lot of the blame for the way the squad have played over the last couple of months, We were supposed to know half way through the season what our best squad was ( those were his words ) well I'm dammed if i know what it is , and i very much doubt if he does. One thing i don't understand is, when we were away at wigan, taking into account the standard we have been playing at, it was fairly obvious we were going to be needing a good defence, Why not play the likes of A Raleigh who is a top defender, move clock on a couple of weeks , same situation , a Wolves side scoring points for fun, at home , big hostile crowd, did we learn anything from Wigan, seems not, the pack were so outclassed maybe it wouldn't have made a difference anyway, But the teams are beginning to look more and more like they are picked from desperation, rather than from the strongest squad in Super league.

I was due to go to Warrington last night , but my mate cried off at the last minute ( thank heaven), I can remember a time when i would have been gutted to miss it, last night i was on the points of turning the telly off at half time, good job i didn't , i would have missed the bit where the Giants realised they can play if they try, But you cant play for twenty minutes and expect to win, and if the opposition give you a good hiding up the middle of the field It's unlikely you'll have the energy for more.
I am here to be shot down. Neutral
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penninegiant
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:23 pm

Im not firing any bullets Bo -though we no doubt will be " the old moaning gits!" again

The other week --I suggested that as Brough was injured --we replace him
I suggested McNally who has played "once or twice" as a half back
We gave him a contract - give him a go!

We also saw against Saints (a reasonable team it seems) the try of the season (or close ) from Lawrence and Cudgoe partnership and promising signs that it was developing well

David Hodgson -though criticised by many -has shown since his return that he knows where the whitewash is

Mc Gillvary was dooing reasonable with his centre partner --and showing his full potential

Brough gets injured and what happens

McNally gets played at full back -and apparently (couldnt go -hols!) didnt do bad

Though as you say Bo --big squad do we replace like for like up front --no we abolish the promising partnership --and move the centre to full back and his mate to the second row

The full back goes to scrum half and the second rower back into the centre position with a new partner

And whebn Brough returns from injury soon when the music stops we`ll all pick a position again

Hes done a cracking job since he came here --developed the team and some of the players, and if needs must yeah give someone a trial in a "new" position

BUT-----( OK HES THE COACH ) I honestly cant see at his stage -with a cup match and the run-in to the playoffs approaching its a bit bloody late not (it seems) knowing what the the best formation and 17 is and who plays where

Anyone noticed that Briers was missing ---but Warrington won!
I didnt notice that Hodgson had got moved to fill in for him and Bridge to full back and Micheal Monaghan etc etc etc

TS replaced him and made minor adjustments -but basically left as was!

Im sorry - it doesnt gel wi me!

I thought the demons of old had been exorcised)

But to play agains the top teams in such a disjointed fashion as yesterdays first half - is partly due in my mind to the number of changes in personnel and their positions

If he thinks Lawrence could be a sound 2nd rower
why werent we grooming him as such in the close season and trying it earlier on

But as Bo says --I thought we had forwards to do that job
Raleigh hasnt been seen for a while --perhaps we`re gonna try him at centre ?

Im disappointed and frustrated as at the moment I cant see a lot of daylight / cohesion / a settled format for the run in

SORRY --and regrettably -whilst NB was "not amused" --I no longer believe all the blame can be laid on the players on the day

half backs have to have an understanding
centres and wingers have to have an ongoing working relationship

that is part of the reason the international teams fail in my opinion - its a couple of training schedules and then theyre often playing against each other or a loose forward is picked at half back etc

For quite some time now when I see the squad --Ive started to play a guessing game again as to who will play and where
But at the moment -it almost looks as though they`ve met on the bus (which also breaks down it seems)

Nope -- in my opinion --and like Bo Ive got a bullet proof vest --it aint working and I aint afraid to say it
If Im proved wrong --I`ll admit that as well

So watch this space !
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:46 pm

The above 2 posters have given a fair assessment imo. The team has been messed about with far too much. The top 2 teams in the league are Wigan & Wire with us as a now distant third in terms of professionalism.

What on earth happened to our defence? We take a couple of hesitant steps forward then stop dead and wait for the ball carrier to smash through the line. Defensive communication & confidence is shot. We are unrecognizable defensively from NB's debut season, when we were excellent. What has gone wrong?

I always thought NB's messing around with the team to be detrimental to the performances. I still think it was a huge mistake when he stood the majority of the team down at Saints the week before the Cup final.

I totally agree with the point about Bruno too. I've got no problem at all with him being a back rower, but why put him there at this point in the season? It just seems crackers to me. He went reasonably well there v Celtic but was clearly out of his depth v Wire. And I don't think it was his fault, he just hasn't had enough experience there yet. I really like the lad, he's a good player.

We just seem to be shooting ourselves in the foot at the moment. We are going to have to smarten up quickly to beat Cas away in the Cup. That will be a tough match. We need a victory at Saints too to get the players' confidence back v big teams. Hard work ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:51 pm

Well i can't pick many holes in that PG, but maybe that's not surprising in view of the fact we have been watching Fartown a similar length of time and have seen some of the finest players ever to grace the Claret and gold.

Judging by the response on here Nobody cares one way or the other, and to be honest who can blame them, I am loosing interest myself very quickly, I am full of respect for what Nathan Brown has done for the team, there are players who have been transformed under his coaching, but it is my honest opinion that he is loosing his way on this team selection thing, I have never been happy with all this rotating stuff, to me you make changes to a team when you have to , or if a player runs out of form, what did McNally do to loose his place, the answer will be "lack of experience against a big team" well considering the way Warrington went through us ,he wouldn't have let us down, If it was the odd game then fair enough, every team has a bad day but this has been going on for weeks now, and when we come up against the better sides it just shows how far we have slipped back.

Like you i am happy for Lawrence to be a S rower if that is what has to be, but why in the world would you start changes like that as we approach the play off's, A couple of weeks ago he couldn't get in the side. All very strange mate, but as i say I'm quickly running out of interest, doubt if I'll get a season ticket next season, I'll probably just pick the games i go too

I really hope we can get it back together, i would love to see us win something, For K Davy as much as anything, We have chance to get back on track a bit next week at Bradford and i don't expect that to be easy, Lets wait and see what sort of a team we have for that.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:57 pm

sparky wrote:
The above 2 posters have given a fair assessment imo. The team has been messed about with far too much. The top 2 teams in the league are Wigan & Wire with us as a now distant third in terms of professionalism.

What on earth happened to our defence? We take a couple of hesitant steps forward then stop dead and wait for the ball carrier to smash through the line. Defensive communication & confidence is shot. We are unrecognizable defensively from NB's debut season, when we were excellent. What has gone wrong?

I always thought NB's messing around with the team to be detrimental to the performances. I still think it was a huge mistake when he stood the majority of the team down at Saints the week before the Cup final.

I totally agree with the point about Bruno too. I've got no problem at all with him being a back rower, but why put him there at this point in the season? It just seems crackers to me. He went reasonably well there v Celtic but was clearly out of his depth v Wire. And I don't think it was his fault, he just hasn't had enough experience there yet. I really like the lad, he's a good player.

We just seem to be shooting ourselves in the foot at the moment. We are going to have to smarten up quickly to beat Cas away in the Cup. That will be a tough match. We need a victory at Saints too to get the players' confidence back v big teams. Hard work ahead.

Smile
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defleppard
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:39 pm

Bo,I don't think it's because people don't care.Maybe not confident enough to put their views across for whatever reason.

I do think Nathan Brown's rotation policy has been found out now,this should be the stage of the season when the rotation was paying off.But our props look more knackered now after rotation than at any time during this campaign.

But saying that I don't blame him trying to give rest to Mason,Crabtree and Griffin because sorry to say the back up forwards are not good enough,they don't come in and impress.

Some of the back up can defend ok,but get shoved all over the collision,others can run it up tough when they feel like it but then drop off tackles that cost us the game.

I think NB got it wrong moving Cudjoe out of right centre,how many tries did he set up for McGillvary,ain't broke why fix it.Wardle has a lot to learn or he's another who's going to end up in the 2nd row.

We've altered things,too drastic,we brought in Kyle to replace Brough in awful conditions at Weakfield so we lost then we go into huge positional changes.

First thing get the forwards running with some fire.

The Shay crap has affected us,though they won't admit it now, it will all come out 'in the wash' maybe at the start of next season.

Fortress Galpharm it was.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:37 am

I said a couple of weeks ago on RLfand that NB was losing the plot and was shouted down, seems a few on here agree. my observations to get this team to the top.
Play people in their propper positions and we will be fine.
Dont stick with players who have been brought in through the season if they are not firing on all cylinders.
Dont have a combo of horne kirmond and patrick or any 2 actually on the pitch at the same time together, bad defenders and too small and have good go forward only when we are on top.
Dont complicate things by having full backs and halfbacks switching positions for attack and defence
Dont try to convert people to different positions with 8 weeks to go of the regular season.
Liase with your staff so people can sort themselves out if not playing
When playing big packs, also have a big pack
Dont have small guys driving out of our 20 when mason eorl and griffin are on the pitch
When combinations are starting to work, dont change them
play people on form and at the minute some form is awful.

Just a few things that seem obvious to me
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:21 am

defleppard wrote:
Bo,I don't think it's because people don't care.Maybe not confident enough to put their views across for whatever reason.

I do think Nathan Brown's rotation policy has been found out now,this should be the stage of the season when the rotation was paying off.But our props look more knackered now after rotation than at any time during this campaign.

But saying that I don't blame him trying to give rest to Mason,Crabtree and Griffin because sorry to say the back up forwards are not good enough,they don't come in and impress.

Some of the back up can defend ok,but get shoved all over the collision,others can run it up tough when they feel like it but then drop off tackles that cost us the game.

I think NB got it wrong moving Cudjoe out of right centre,how many tries did he set up for McGillvary,ain't broke why fix it.Wardle has a lot to learn or he's another who's going to end up in the 2nd row.

We've altered things,too drastic,we brought in Kyle to replace Brough in awful conditions at Weakfield so we lost then we go into huge positional changes.

First thing get the forwards running with some fire.

The Shay crap has affected us,though they won't admit it now, it will all come out 'in the wash' maybe at the start of next season.

Fortress Galpharm it was.

Sorry mate i put that badly, I know there are plenty on here who care, Yourself ,Flyingprop,Matt, ponner and many more, I meant like me they may be getting fed up of the forwards backwards way of things, I agree with just about everything you have said there,( perhaps not the bit about the shay )
I know that 28-16 is not a drubbing when you compare what Warrington have been doing to other teams, and credit to Fartown for holding them in the second half, but we know that in the first half Wolves could have had 40 or 50 and It's that huge difference in class in that first half that stuck in my craw.
Anyway Bulls next, hopefully Brough will be back and that should help the forwards a bit, This is a game we can't afford to loose now but I'm sure they will come up with the goods , I'm expecting our pack to dominate this one and that should give the halves a chance to shine, Onward and upward.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:51 am

Mable_syrup wrote:
I said a couple of weeks ago on RLfand that NB was losing the plot and was shouted down, seems a few on here agree. my observations to get this team to the top.
Play people in their propper positions and we will be fine.
Dont stick with players who have been brought in through the season if they are not firing on all cylinders.
Dont have a combo of horne kirmond and patrick or any 2 actually on the pitch at the same time together, bad defenders and too small and have good go forward only when we are on top.
Dont complicate things by having full backs and halfbacks switching positions for attack and defence
Dont try to convert people to different positions with 8 weeks to go of the regular season.
Liase with your staff so people can sort themselves out if not playing
When playing big packs, also have a big pack
Dont have small guys driving out of our 20 when mason eorl and griffin are on the pitch
When combinations are starting to work, dont change them
play people on form and at the minute some form is awful.

Just a few things that seem obvious to me


AND OBVIOUSLY ME, SPARKY, BO, DL and maybe others Mable who , though its THIS forum are prepared to "wait and see"
Regrettably I can see a good market in rose tinted specs!!

Sadly me and Bo have been down a similar track so MANY times, it starts to disappoint and frustrate (but note wer`e still behind the team! But weve waited and seen so bloody long it hurts --and KD might just be starting to feel the same and saying so
Cos some of recent decisions do , as Bo says < have a whiff of desperation to achieve something --but not frankly in the way I see it happening

We arent in charge - but what we both know --and Scorpio as well is this

the last time we were successful -you had this -cohesion

Pepperell and Henderson virtually "slept together
Devery and Cooper were like twins
Banks and Ramsden - were the organisers --and dont believe either were internationals

Ill be told Im harping back to those were the days -and the game isnt the same etc --but think about it
At the back all the time was a good full back -who played full back --and played full back
He wasnt a stand in centre / winger/ scrum half
HE did his job and well
And if injured --then the lad in the A team got a chance and held it for the period
Thats why when Hunter went --in came Dyson - when he went (both played for us and then retired) in came Curry
When he went -in came Wallace --and so it went on

I can imagine Dave Valentines views on him switching to centre - banks to hooker -etc etc

and these were not dummies ! --we won stuff -like we aint done for yonks -and close second doesnt frankly come into my vocabulary

These lads played behind a pack that functioned as such -cos they knew where there team mates played /were positioned / and their roles in a tight knit unit that moved forward as one --A PACK

Yes --the game --style --and tactics have changed
But ask yourself -- at , say Jaguar Ford building cars and getting "car of the year "(ignore market trends /recession)

...............each member of staff has a particular function to create the finished article thats a winner !

I can imagine the finished article if you put the engine tuner in design
The production director on the shop floor etc
5 wheels /two steering wheels and headlamps at the back? Wink

No Sorry -as far as I`m concerned --you can stick multi functionality as far up the Khyber pass as poss
If Lawrence is being considered a second rower after coming through the ranks from the amateur game as a centre --is SUPERLEAGUE level the proper way to start him eight games from the end of season
Is Cudjoe considered a full back , a centre , or a winger etc
Is Robbo a half back or a hooker
Two of these lads were chosen for England for goodness sake --but is it the same there- play anywhere plan B etc cos we aint winning reight much there either are we??

They played the amateur game and junior level getting used to certain positions and then
Right lads - all change !


Lets get a team that WORKS -TOGETHER - and keeps a formation that starts to read each others minds almost

Then if drops in form occur or unfortunate injuries happen --just change those positions
If the rest is "AS IS" the newcomers can be helped along the integration path because they (if the practice moves at coaching and tactics are constant) slot into the overall scheme of things
If the established personnel are also moved into new positions -- its a complete lottery and the whole set-up is "feeling its way!"

My take on things -- but frankly it dont wash

Thoughts folks?
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:33 am

It is interesting that most views above are similar and appear to focus on the disruption of rotation and positional changes. I agree that is the nub of the problem.

I also believe that despite rotation we are suffering for only having 3 real props, Fa'alogo, Patrick and Raliegh can do stints there but are all really only effective as a 4th prop behind Griff, Eorl and Mason. Both Griff and Mason have missed a few matches, for various reasons and there are only a handful of matches where all three have played. This results in longer minutes which somewhat undermines the point of rotation and it is props that need rotated most due to being the most physically demanding position.

Players that can cover different positions are great for in game changes, covering injuries as they occur in a match, however I believe extending that to the run on team weakens the team significantly. We have a huge squad, but a couple of key positions are not well covered, I mean the half backs.

The loss of Danny Brough for a few games of course weakens us at scrum half and for his kicking game, however the solution to that problem that Nathan Brown has used is to weaken us also at centre and full back. The alternative solution of moving Robinson weakened us significantly at hooker.

Kyle Wood, Jamie Cording & Michael Lawrence appeared to carry the can for the defeat at Wakefield, NB made public statements about dropping players and those 3 missed the next match. I was at Wakefield and those 3 were far from the worst on admitadely a very poor showing. My point being, stick Kyle in for Danny Brough and keep the rest of the team at full strength.

I believe our best team is:

Grix
McGillvray
Cudjoe
Lawrence
Hodgson
Brown
Brough
Crabtree
Robinson
Griffin
Gilmour
Fa'alogo
O'Donnell

Faiumu
Mason
Patrick
Ferguson

I believe most would see our best team as close to that, with perhaps a couple of changes (I have excluded Lunt as he is out for the season). When was the last time we got close to that line up, with players in those positions?

I think it was probably in Cardiff?



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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:48 am

Deary me how fickle some people are! We are third in the table are still in the challenge cup and have a good chance of winning something. The team have let itself down on a few occassions, but the crusaders debacle and the poor effort at batley we not a result of playing people out of position.it wad a result of the team not pulling their finger out! NB is looking to the future and that's not a bad thing. A few odd comments on here such as the small guys driving out of our own twenty- that has ALWAYS happened to take pressure of the forwards and keep them fresh- and quite frankly hodgson and certainly Jerry made more metres in some of their drives than some of our forwards have been doing. Can't have it all ways complain we dont play youngsters complain if we do accomodat them- if we want the youngsters to get their chance then we have to put them in a position to give them their best opportunity hence switching Leroy for wardle in right centre. NB is not to blame for poor passing, knocking the ball on in tackles or giving away stupid penalties, and playing in a different position should not be an excuse for any of that.mason won't be playing this week as he's been given a rest, no doubt some on here will moan about that too.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:24 am

Jools,

nowt wrong with giving youngsters a chance, but lets give them the best chance, by slotting them in to a settled team with minimal changes. The way Jerry was brought into the team last season was ideal, playing a good number of matches but protected from over exposure. That was good coaching, good man management. Contrast that with Wardle, whom all agree is a fine prospect, thrown into a disrupted and out of sorts team, it is credit to Joe that the Wigan experience has not destryoed his confidence.

I do not think people are being fickle, most recognise that NB is a fine coach, most also believe he has overdone the changes.

I agree we are well capable of winning something, but to do so need to address our form, if we do that who cares that we lost on friday? As posters on here we should be interested in how the team goes and how it can improve, that is entirely normal, this message board is intended for such discussion is it not?
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:01 pm

Giantdee wrote:
Jools,

nowt wrong with giving youngsters a chance, but lets give them the best chance, by slotting them in to a settled team with minimal changes. The way Jerry was brought into the team last season was ideal, playing a good number of matches but protected from over exposure. That was good coaching, good man management. Contrast that with Wardle, whom all agree is a fine prospect, thrown into a disrupted and out of sorts team, it is credit to Joe that the Wigan experience has not destryoed his confidence.

I do not think people are being fickle, most recognise that NB is a fine coach, most also believe he has overdone the changes.

I agree we are well capable of winning something, but to do so need to address our form, if we do that who cares that we lost on friday? As posters on here we should be interested in how the team goes and how it can improve, that is entirely normal, this message board is intended for such discussion is it not?

EXACTLY (like similar to what I said ---and happened in the good old days when we won summat!
Fickle --no way Jose!!
I say it as I see it -and the end result will prove or disprove my view
Despite what you may believe Jools I HOPE YOURE RIGHT ............................however.......................
At the moment I (and now it seems others ) dont think its working!

Hes Good --in fact hes bloody good --in fact hes been bloody brilliant has NB --but he aint God -and though he is honest enough to say hes not happy , he hasnt actually said .....................................????????????
The lads dont pick the team , dictate tactics , and make changes Sorry but in these recent times -the book stops there I`m afraid
Despite some bad decisions --I still believe that we had the best chance and the best squad to win the cup at Wembley than for many a year !
I also know there has to be a loser --but I also believe that once again -on the day--we werent as hungry as the opposition
You HAVE TO BE!! Theres no hiding places in the modern game

One thing I agree with you though there -- he doesnt drop balls and give away silly penalties
so --if thats what happens out on the field --we wont be winning --end of !!!
My view ! We ll see!
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:15 pm

Lets hope the players dont read all this negativity.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:48 pm

Dont understand your point OS --hasnt NB himself said similar

Some on here do care you know - or should we be happy to be "the nearly`s but not quite`s ??

I am seriously not having a pop at you - but I do get the opinion that you yourself are happy with the status quo at the moment and we should all beperfectly content because of our League position

Personally I feel that we should have been sitting pretty now --but its not to be !
- and theres still signs for concern and a hell of a lot of hard work to be done

After all as one pundit said "its only a game !
Alas it aint any more is it -its in plain speaking ,a business (ask KD) -- and to be successful you have to compete as consistently as possible with your competitors

Do you honestly believe we have been doing recently ?

But as for true supporters smiling and shutting up --I aint never been that in 62 years - and old habits die hard pal
As for worrying they might read it --then you tell em not to ! Wink
After all -- it is a supporters discussion board, and most on here truly are !
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:12 pm

Old School wrote:
Lets hope the players dont read all this negativity.

Why ? Is it likely to upset their delicate sensibilities, I expect you will be happy enough for them to read all the praise when they play well, and as PG has said , if it does upset them what effect does N Brown saying it in public have?. Anyway it has at least stimulated some opinions if nothing else, and personally i am of the opinion that if you pay to go "season ticket or otherwise" you are entitled to your opinion especially on a forum such as this. You once said that i talked a load of crap and you may well be right, I may well be wrong about many of the things i say, but if you stick forever to one line posts it's unlikely you will ever be wrong is it, and by the same token nobody is ever going to get your point of view, I for one am as interested in your opinions as much as anyone else's.

There have been some good opinions anyway, my own seem to run very much on a par with PGs " probably not surprising all things considered " and like him, much as i admire N Brown i don't think he's infallible, I think if you look at most of the better players in the modern "or Super league era" Connally, Newlove, Edwards, Radlinsky Paul brothers, Wellens , Roby etc and more , they may have made positional changes but generally speaking they have played one position to an exceptional level, I do accept there are exceptions to this.
My thoughts are the same as some others on here, If your S half gets crocked, bring in the A team player, don't swap the whole team round, I genuinely think N Brown has lost his way a bit at the moment, but that doesn't mean i want to see him go, I reckon he is without doubt the best coach we have had in many a long year, same can be said of many of our players but when they are embarrassed to the extent they were at Warrington in that first half then i wont be afraid to give my opinion on it Whoever reads it, And i know however much i threaten i shall still be at Bradford at the weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:49 pm

I agree we should be sitting pretty- but the reason we are not is NOT the fault of NB it's the fault of the players. Wardle is good amd should play- so you drop Leroy? Or Bruno? We have three lads who all deserve to play so either one shifts or wardle doesn't get his chance. Or they take it in turns which is what everyone is complaining about. I've said for some time that Bruno would do well in second row-Nathan seems to think so- or he'd put another player in there. Losing to wire and Wigan is no shame, we can't expect to win every match and the stick that NB is getting on here maybe he should have announced he was going! At the end of the day if it wasn't for our injuries all the changes wouldn't be happening except the Bruno switch. People on here are expecting miracles and when they aren't getting them are whineing. I heard less whining when we were winning four games a season.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:07 pm

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am sure if Brown was to prepare the team again for the Wire match he would do things differently. That is what people are suggesting, it was pretty much what Brown suggested in his post match comments. The most important thing is what we do in the cup and the play-offs, but it is a whole lot easier if we enter the those games on form. There is time to right the wrongs and hit form for the quarter final, semis, Wembley and the play offs, but not much time and I think Nathan knows it.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:13 pm

Jools wrote:
I agree we should be sitting pretty- but the reason we are not is NOT the fault of NB it's the fault of the players. Wardle is good amd should play- so you drop Leroy? Or Bruno? We have three lads who all deserve to play so either one shifts or wardle doesn't get his chance. Or they take it in turns which is what everyone is complaining about. I've said for some time that Bruno would do well in second row-Nathan seems to think so- or he'd put another player in there. Losing to wire and Wigan is no shame, we can't expect to win every match and the stick that NB is getting on here maybe he should have announced he was going! At the end of the day if it wasn't for our injuries all the changes wouldn't be happening except the Bruno switch. People on here are expecting miracles and when they aren't getting them are whineing. I heard less whining when we were winning four games a season.

I agree, there is no shame in losing to Wire & Wigan. But there is shame in the way those losses came about. The Wigan match was a farce, and the first half of the Wire game was a complete embarrasment.

If people offer a diferent point of view to you Jools, that doesn't automatically mean they're "whining".

Look, the bottom line is this. It doesn't matter a damn where we finish in the league table. All that matters is trophies in the cabinet at the end of the season. A team either wins the silverware or it doesn't. Everything else is academic.

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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:04 pm

I said at the start of the season I would be happy with fourth and a good cup run. I felt that was realistic, and I still would be happy but if we win something even better. The club has made massive inroads since we rejoined superleague towards pulling ourselves away from the "filler" tag - and this is the first season anyone outside the club have us a chance of doing anything so we should be proud and looking to continue to build because we are not there yet. Winning something this year should be seen as a bonus. We simply don't have the youngsters with the right mentality to just slot in- this area is poor at producing to quality players those good youngsters we do have we poached from other clubs- just look at the table to see how good our youngsters are or not. Some efforts have been disappointing yes but regardless of who plays where we aren't good enough - YET.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:58 pm

Jools wrote:
I agree we should be sitting pretty- but the reason we are not is NOT the fault of NB it's the fault of the players. Wardle is good amd should play- so you drop Leroy? Or Bruno? We have three lads who all deserve to play so either one shifts or wardle doesn't get his chance. Or they take it in turns which is what everyone is complaining about. I've said for some time that Bruno would do well in second row-Nathan seems to think so- or he'd put another player in there. Losing to wire and Wigan is no shame, we can't expect to win every match and the stick that NB is getting on here maybe he should have announced he was going! At the end of the day if it wasn't for our injuries all the changes wouldn't be happening except the Bruno switch. People on here are expecting miracles and when they aren't getting them are whineing. I heard less whining when we were winning four games a season.

Well you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, But how you equate what has been said as whining i don't know, N Brown has also had plenty of credit as well, apart from which "as Matt said " he has said the same himself in public, so does that make him a whiner as well. Everyone has their ideas and some state them, that's what the forum is for as far as i know, For example i find the idea that Cudjo, Lawrence and Wardle should play in turns to be quite ludicrous, The 2 players in the best form should play ,and the other should fight to get his place back, However should you or more importantly N Brown think that is the right way, fair enough, I do know this, England and before them GB have been playing people out of position for the last 30 years because of their names ,and we all know what result that has had.

I will repeat what i said earlier, I think N Brown is the best coach we have had for may a long year, and if he or you See's Lawrence as a S row forward i am happy with that, i am just questioning the wisdom of moving him there at this stage in the season when we have players who have played virtually all their days at SR who are sat in the stand, If that makes me a whiner, then so be it.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:31 pm

I agree that if before the season someone had said we would be third at this stage in the season and still in the cup I would have bitten their hand off. However the team has on the whole proven that we are as good as Wire and Wigan, but because of a few let downs we are not quite keeping up with them at the moment. Earlier in the season our form was fantastic, now it is not. We play well one week and then disappoint the week after. No team can win every game and play fantastic every week, but as the 'business' end of the season approaches we need to be hitting form not inconsistency.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:59 pm

There is no win win situation if he doesn't play wardle he's not giving promising youngsters a chance, if he rotates them then he not allowing continuity if he drops Leroy or Bruno when they are playing well the question would be why. What I do know is that although Bruno has only played two games at second row this is not a decision that has just been made, he did speak to him about this in the off season and he has been doing some training there too, gilly has been a mentor. We as spectators look at his decisions and the team performance one game at a time Nathan does not, he sees a much bigger picture and he is looking further forward and even possibly into next season.
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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm

Being mullered recently by the two teams we were supposed to be challenging for honours has been a tough pill to have to swallow

We are only a bunch of fans trying to make sense of what's gone wrong.Suppose we could all come on here and trot out the line 'don't worry Nathan will sort it' But if that happened it would kill this forum stone dead with boredom,so what would be the point in that.

Can't believe that anyone connected with the club would ever get precious about owt I or anyone else typed up on here.Could I go out there and do what they they do,no way in a month of Mondays.But well I spend a load of brass following the team all over and not just the north of England any more,so I think I'm entitled to have a say.I always get behind the team on game days and never bag players.Just maybe come on here after a loss and have a moan.By the same token always willing to give praise when it goes well.

Thing is in the old days,the moaning used to be just hot air blown away on the breeze,but these new fangled internet forums make it all that much different,now folks views are there forever to read over and over again and get vexed about if that way inclined,if you take it all that seriously.

Anyways back to the game.We lost the first up contact v Wigan and Warrington,not dominating the upper body strength battle,therefore our markers couldn't get set,therefore we didn't control the speed of the opposition play the ball,therefore our defence was not set therefore our line speed looked slow.

I bagged the Shay,not because I don't like the ground,just well it's been a disruption to our normal way that we could have done without.They put gloss on Eorl's Testimonial being no bother,and NB's decision to stay or go another thing that was under control,but then much later these were used as explanations why our form was not what it was,so why should this move out of our familiar surroundings be any different.Just trying to think of reasons why our intensity has dropped off lately.Whatever the reason,we need to get back to what we were doing well for most of this season,otherwise all that good work is going to go to waste.

Playing Lawrence at second row,okay,but if he is still gonna play like a centre,looking to step rather than hitting the line then why bother.



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PostSubject: Re: One step forward   Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:19 pm

defleppard wrote:
Being mullered recently by the two teams we were supposed to be challenging for honours has been a tough pill to have to swallow

We are only a bunch of fans trying to make sense of what's gone wrong.Suppose we could all come on here and trot out the line 'don't worry Nathan will sort it' But if that happened it would kill this forum stone dead with boredom,so what would be the point in that.

Can't believe that anyone connected with the club would ever get precious about owt I or anyone else typed up on here.Could I go out there and do what they they do,no way in a month of Mondays.But well I spend a load of brass following the team all over and not just the north of England any more,so I think I'm entitled to have a say.I always get behind the team on game days and never bag players.Just maybe come on here after a loss and have a moan.By the same token always willing to give praise when it goes well.

Thing is in the old days,the moaning used to be just hot air blown away on the breeze,but these new fangled internet forums make it all that much different,now folks views are there forever to read over and over again and get vexed about if that way inclined,if you take it all that seriously.

Anyways back to the game.We lost the first up contact v Wigan and Warrington,not dominating the upper body strength battle,therefore our markers couldn't get set,therefore we didn't control the speed of the opposition play the ball,therefore our defence was not set therefore our line speed looked slow.

I bagged the Shay,not because I don't like the ground,just well it's been a disruption to our normal way that we could have done without.They put gloss on Eorl's Testimonial being no bother,and NB's decision to stay or go another thing that was under control,but then much later these were used as explanations why our form was not what it was,so why should this move out of our familiar surroundings be any different.Just trying to think of reasons why our intensity has dropped off lately.Whatever the reason,we need to get back to what we were doing well for most of this season,otherwise all that good work is going to go to waste.

Playing Lawrence at second row,okay,but if he is still gonna play like a centre,looking to step rather than hitting the line then why bother.




Good post mate, and makes the point about the forum perfectly, there is no point having one if you are only supposed to come on and praise them when they win ,and find a excuse for them when they play like they did on Friday, as i have said i have as much respect for what Brown has done as anybody. I have even more respect for K Davy but i think he made a dreadful mistake with Hodgson, especially then re-signing Gilmore at the same age, but am i not allowed to make such a comment.
I suppose my posts on this have been fuelled by disappointment to a large degree but i am not one of these ,we cant expect to beat this team or that team, with the size and quality of the squad we have i thought we were going to have a real tilt at something this season, not talk about building for next season. Anyway we are not out of anything yet, we have every chance to get back on track at Bradford, I shall be there and i shall be shouting for them just as hard as everyone else.
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