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 Fitter, faster ,stronger

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BO JANGLES
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PostSubject: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:37 pm

I was watching a couple of these programs last night on I Player, they have been running on BBC i think, anyway they are fascinating watching and extremely interesting giving much food for thought. The first one i watched was the hundred metre's over the life of the olympics, How they break the race down into sections and work on these sections as though they were different races.
All the different styles of running and training were covered, the coming and going of the power runners, and the effect they had on the sport, Lot's of coverage of most of the winners over the years, their particular training methods and the science that goes into trying to get that extra fraction more.

Some really great film coverage with some memorable shots, One particular shot of Carl Lewis and the look of sheer unbelief on his face as Ben Johnson pulled away from him ( We know why of course ).

The most impressive piece of film for me was from the 1936 Olympics.( Ive seen films before but never really concentrated on watching ) Jessie Owen was without doubt the finest runner i have ever watched, He had a style that seemed to be absolutely effortless, No head nodding about ,no shoulders heaving, he just flowed over the ground, Truly brilliant to watch, ( he certainly peeded on Adolph's chips )
and when you think some 80 years later ,with all the Science and facilities + the special food and all the rest of it, they have managed to knock off a couple of seconds or so.

I was discussing this with a good friend of mine today and the talk inevitably got round to League and the Giants. Now this is not a post to resurrect the discussions we've had on here comparing past players with today's and all the rest of that, But he did make one very pertinent point as we were discussing professionalism and desire to win and such. He said when you hear or read people's thoughts about resting players or players playing for long minutes, It makes you wonder when the likes of Wiggins gets subbed for a rest having done 4 or 5 hours peddling up a mountain, and then doing it again the day after , and every day for a couple of weeks and more , League players train a few days a week of course but by and large i would say they have fairly easy time compared to some sports Men and Women, Only my opinion of course.

Anyway for anyone who didn't watch the programs they are on I Player, well worth a watch.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 pm

I think RL is one of the more demanding sports on a person's body. Yes they don't do the hours that a Tour de France guy does, but then Wiggins wouldn't last two minutes on an RL pitch. Horses for courses, but I do admire the body on the line attitude that RL players have.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:28 pm

matt01 wrote:
I think RL is one of the more demanding sports on a person's body. Yes they don't do the hours that a Tour de France guy does, but then Wiggins wouldn't last two minutes on an RL pitch. Horses for courses, but I do admire the body on the line attitude that RL players have.

True there is far less chance of injury in cycling Matt, I suppose for League, Boxing might be a better comparison, but again nowadays they may fight twice a year if they are busy fighters, the likes of Archie Moore fought over 250 times, often against bigger heavier men. I think It's true to say very few League players would see the second round in a boxing ring, so It is as you say Horses for courses, but there have been some truly impressive people in sport in the past, There still are of course but nowadays they have every facility so should perform better, That applies to just about any sport i would think, League players are very good value for money in the overall scheme of things.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:48 pm

RL players definitely offer value for money compared with most professional sportsmen. Andy Carroll on 80k a week, there are plenty of SL players that would love 80k a year. Comparing past and present is difficult. It is fair to say players played much more with no substitutes, but because of less training they ran at and were run at by slower and weaker players so it wasn't as damaging to the players body, yet because of the extra games overall it probably balances out.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:46 pm

eeerrrrr
If you closely watch those lads in a group coming down a winding Pyrennees road at speeds nearing 70miles an hours on two wheels --and think they dont get injured when they clash...........................!!!

Believe me they aint pussies !!

I saw em down Holme Moss --its frightening !!
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:53 pm

matt01 wrote:
RL players definitely offer value for money compared with most professional sportsmen. Andy Carroll on 80k a week, there are plenty of SL players that would love 80k a year. Comparing past and present is difficult. It is fair to say players played much more with no substitutes, but because of less training they ran at and were run at by slower and weaker players so it wasn't as damaging to the players body, yet because of the extra games overall it probably balances out.

Difficult yes Matt
But believe mate --Henderson ran 100metres in the Commonwealth games

Weaker -- no way
Id have liked to see you at full back with Cooper coming at yer --or Bowman or Slevin

The difference was the "after care" -supplements /conditioning / treatment / and masseurs etc

Given all that and the fact that the human body`s performance has moved on -- they still had the skills - and played Saturday -and back at work Sunday for some
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:57 am

The difficulty PG is comparing one sport to another, Boxing for example drains energy at an unbelievable rate, so does Rowing and there will be others, Cycling is more endurance in comparison, but to me it must take tremendous will power and determination to do it day after day for 5/6 hours.
I certainly agree with you that some of the players of yesteryear would be star players in today's game, It was more the style of the game that was slower rather than the individuals, for example i would have backed Ken Senior to give anyone at the Giants today 5 yds over the length of the field.
There is a great tendency these days to blow sportsmen performances out of proportion, It happens in all sports, cyclists as good as they are, how does Wiggins compare to Eddie Merx, and Ankateel (spelling ) who's bikes weighed 5 times as much, Stan Mathews and the like with leather footballs, Boxing as i have said is an outstanding example. I am a big golf fan as you know and at the moment the open is on, the same applies , Give today's players the tackle that was available 50 years ago and see how they would perform.
Safest thing is not to compare today's with yesterdays i suppose, But It's not easy is it when you have seen teams like us oldies have Neutral The thing is that no-one will ever know the answers. The difficulty for the likes of us is Understanding in league, why well paid professional players who have every facility at their disposal can't manage to play 80 minutes football a week, It must be i think as Matt says, the impact of man on man is greater these days. Are we going to see the British version of Grid iron before too long, i hope It's not in my time.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:51 am

penninegiant wrote:
matt01 wrote:
RL players definitely offer value for money compared with most professional sportsmen. Andy Carroll on 80k a week, there are plenty of SL players that would love 80k a year. Comparing past and present is difficult. It is fair to say players played much more with no substitutes, but because of less training they ran at and were run at by slower and weaker players so it wasn't as damaging to the players body, yet because of the extra games overall it probably balances out.

Difficult yes Matt
But believe mate --Henderson ran 100metres in the Commonwealth games

Weaker -- no way
Id have liked to see you at full back with Cooper coming at yer --or Bowman or Slevin

The difference was the "after care" -supplements /conditioning / treatment / and masseurs etc

Given all that and the fact that the human body`s performance has moved on -- they still had the skills - and played Saturday -and back at work Sunday for some
but 100m runners are faster now than then

Of course I'd have no chance with Cooper or Bowman or Slevin, but then I'd have no chance against a Gateshead reserve player either

You are right the difference is supplements, conditioning, treatment etc..., but also full time training means on the whole the current players are faster and stronger, there are more bigger collisions each match and this will wear away at the body.

I am not doing down the old game or old players, its simply they didn't have the advantages the current players have, the grit, the determination, the flair, the hunger for winning was just as strong then and in some cases stronger.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:59 am

agreed Matt
I was just making the point that though as sprinters there are now faster Athletes - Henderson and Berwyn Jones were probably as fast as modern day SuperLeague flyers and speedier by far than their team mates then ! - after all they were sprinters who also played RL!

Sadly we cant see them race each other !
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:16 pm

.............you congratulated Ernie Els Bo

so Im gonna say same for Willie Wiggins
I hear he has a sports psychologist in the camp whos obviously given him the confidence to push his body up and down the Pyrenees for nigh on 3 weeks

So persuading our lads to do it for 80mins should be a piece o cake

Could be the best signing we ever made!!
(the psychologist not Wiggins -- if he asked for a bike --deal off"!!!) Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Fitter, faster ,stronger   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:50 am

penninegiant wrote:
.............you congratulated Ernie Els Bo

so Im gonna say same for Willie Wiggins
I hear he has a sports psychologist in the camp whos obviously given him the confidence to push his body up and down the Pyrenees for nigh on 3 weeks

So persuading our lads to do it for 80mins should be a piece o cake

Could be the best signing we ever made!!
(the psychologist not Wiggins -- if he asked for a bike --deal off"!!!) Wink

I reckon the difference in the past players and today's is the style of training PG or maybe at least. Perhaps doing 45 hours down the pit or whatever they did to earn their living, gave them a different type of fitness,( apart from the obvious flyer's like Jones and Henderson who would still be the fastest in league today), maybe the general overall effect was that is was work that produced the fitness and training was just to hone the skills, sort of today's players are brought to peak fitness with all the paraphernalia ,to be able to perform for one game a week (or part of ) at a high level, but with little stamina, whereas yesternen in general would perform at a lower level but for 3 times as long. Similar as in horse training ,some are 5 furlongs sprinters and then knackered, some can do the National.
Persuading our players to do anything at the moment seems beyond any one's capability Neutral
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